Dayton Grassroots Daily show v.16- “Free Markets”

We’ve been hearing people tell us the “Free market” will solve all problems. The problem  is, you have a better chance believing in Santa Claus, Unicorns and that Homeland Security and the TSA are really deterrents to terrorism.

Yep, that was Alan Greenspan promising us that “free markets” would root out abuses of the system- all the way up to the crash to end all crashes.

Your favorite former congressional candidates, Greg Hunter (R) and David Esrati (D) for OH-3, weigh in on the mystical free market for your edutainment.

Enjoy!

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23 Responses

  1. jstults December 9, 2009 / 5:13 pm
    I think all the smart, forward-thinking experts should be centralized into a committee, a bureau of the body politic if you will, a vanguard of the people, we could call it a politburo for short.  Then they could deliver to us citizens (who can hardly be trusted to act with regards to the greater good) their five year and ten year plans, and we would all know what to do.  I always find it terribly troubling when I have to make my own decisions about how to allocate my resources in the big confusing market (free or otherwise), much better when the central committee’s five-year plan has already chosen the type of bread I will get at the commissary (only a short walk away!) with my man-equivalent-energy coupons.
     
    On a more serious note, I used to have a long commute with a gas guzzling SUV.  The oil price shocks that you mentioned on another thread were quite painful for me (it was not a crisis, despite what the talking heads on the news kept saying, but it did cut in to my beer money).  Guess what?  The simple economics of the situation and the knowledge that we were likely at or past peak oil encouraged me to get a more fuel efficient car (sorry it’s Japanese) and live closer to work when I got the chance.  All without any group of smart guys planning out what is best for society and telling me how to act according to their conception, it was almost as if an invisible hand took hold of me…
     
    David and Greg (w/ apologies to Homer Simpson):

    To Government Policy! The cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.

     
    I’m much more hopeful about technology enabling private groups of people to improve their circumstances than I am about more of the same old coercion and centralized group-think from big government (with an R or a D).

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  2. Gene December 9, 2009 / 5:18 pm
    Fellas, you are proving yourselves to be……. confusing.

    YOU STATE there is no free market (it does not/has not ever existed), yet you criticize the notion of a free market and how it would not work. Well, how the hell do you know? You just stated that there is no such thing as a free market, so what proof do you have? None. BC there are no examples to see the failures. Robert V pointed this out on another post. Fine, in theory you don’t like free markets. But both of you criticize them yet stated at the very beginning that there are no free markets. So what are you criticizing? The theory?

    You said we have a better chance in believing in Santa Claus. What? There is not a real Santa, there is not a real free market…. so how to you jump to criticize free markets?` It is as if you complain about what what Santa brings you…. but there is no Santa. Do you see the error of your arguments?

    The examples of failures you mention happened in a markets that even you admit is not free to begin with. The failures you mentioned are in a market that is of a mixed nature, not a free market, yet you link the two?

    What did the waiter say to the four ****** woman after having lunch?

    WAS ANYTHING ALRIGHT?

    You complain about a system that does not exist. Bitch about your Christmas presents that SANTA brought you……….Liberals, you can’t live with ’em……

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  3. Jim Crotty December 9, 2009 / 6:16 pm
    I really enjoy these videos, David. Sure, there are some points made that I don’t agree with and others that I do. I think what I find most appealing about the videos is that both you and Greg do a great job of discussing serious topics while managing not to take yourselves too seriously. Whether conservative or liberal it is always best to find the humor in the issue or situation. You guys have the right attitude. Slowly but surely I’m learning this valuable lesson.

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  4. Robert Vigh December 9, 2009 / 6:42 pm
    @Jstults ………..LOL………nice post, Comrade.

    @Greg, who set the quota’s on the Cod? …………..bum bum bum………Government!!!! What you describe is the tragedy of the commons which occurs from lack of private ownership, lack of private property rights and lack of a free market. Read this article, it is short and informative:
    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/TragedyoftheCommons.html

    The 2 of you consistently make the most unfounded, unreferenced, illogical arguments about markets that I have witnessed. It is rare that you are even able to respond to readers well versed thoughts with little more than a sentence. YOU want to force others to do what YOU think is good.

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  5. Gene December 9, 2009 / 7:09 pm
    Essentially they blame the “free market” for all of our problems, then they have this post that states that there really is no “free market.” They are right in the fact that there is no “free market.” But how and why they link the problems to this “free market”, a situation that by their own admission does not exist, is most unexplainable.

    If lenders would have lent money to qualified buyers (something the GOVERNMENT FORCED, that being lending to poor people, unqualified people, aka losers) the housing situation would have never become a problem. Well, yes, the industry fucked it up too, but only after the government allowed/forced them to lend to unqualified people. THE GOVERNMENT…. NOT THE FREE MARKET….

    And big fish don’t teach little fish how to swim or survive. Get a clue.

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  6. Gene December 9, 2009 / 7:18 pm
    Maybe you two can replace Jim and Jeff – or the other two guys from movie 2 – in order to make the 3rd movie. This post would be a great start.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109686/fullcredits

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  7. jstults December 9, 2009 / 7:43 pm
    Come on Gene, no need for name calling; this one isn’t their best effort, but at least they are making the effort in the first place and putting something out there for all of us to critique.  Dayton needs more risk takers.
     
    Some constructive criticism:  have a definite thesis / format that you guys write down ahead of time, maybe even go over the skeleton of what sort of back and forth you want; maybe it could have been more clearly a debate format between David and Greg.  It seemed like this was what you were going for at times, but at other times you guys seemed to be agreeing, with David playing the ‘straight man’, so it was muddled. Also, you can tell that you both think of things as you are talking that you want to say, but you censor yourself so that you stay on topic, that’s good, but right after you turn the camera off, write down those tangent ideas immediately so you have some fodder for next time, or maybe just say them into the camera for later review and then edit it out before you post.
     
    I’ll end with: it’s hard not to look like an idiot on camera, I know the only time I was ever on TV I came across as a complete moron, so you guys have my respect for trying.

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  8. Will Brooks December 9, 2009 / 7:43 pm
    Well, I used to come here to read about Dayton Ohio Revealed and Discussed. Seems lately we have taken a strange turn towards hypothetical, contradictory arguments that are relevant to national/global issues. I’ll keep an eye out for Dayton Ohio Revealed and Discussed, until then – ciao!

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  9. Gene December 9, 2009 / 8:00 pm
    I take back my “link” from 7:18p.m. I am in the wrong. I am sorry for the “name calling.”

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  10. David Esrati December 9, 2009 / 10:17 pm

    @Jstults- “Write down ahead of time”- what’s next- scripts? Questions in advance? You think we’re that smart? Or- that we want to be like every other political formula like “Crossfire” or “Hardball”?

    We’re just taking our normal coffee talk- and sharing it in condensed chunks. Sometimes, we even remember to bring it around to Dayton.

    @Will Brooks- The written local issues- will continue- however, some of it depends on how much time I have and how pressing the topic is. Patience.

    As to calling us names- or confusing you- we don’t have all the answers. In fact, what we have more than anything is questions. We hope to get you thinking- talking, discussing the things we bring up. It’s about thinking out loud- and then having a discussion with all of you- to EXPAND on our thoughts.

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  11. jstults December 9, 2009 / 10:53 pm
    David:

    what’s next- scripts?

    You’re right, scripts would be a bad, but a little structure is a courtesy for the viewer (lowers the work-load to figure out what you are trying to tell us), maybe I’m too used to being spoon-fed, and I should just stop worrying and learn to love the stream of consciousness pouring out of South Park…
     
    What were we supposed to be discussing again?

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  12. Bill Daniels (pizzabill) December 10, 2009 / 9:20 am
    David E:
    My $0.02:  I prefer written posts, but appreciate your efforts.  I find myself not wanting to watch TV, and just skipping to the comments– but that’s wearing thin.  I’ll check back once in a while to see if the written posts return.

    Gene: 
    Where’s our ten bucks from a few posts ago?

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  13. Gene December 10, 2009 / 9:34 am
    “IF” I gave ten bucks…….. I suggest you read it again. And I have spent hundreds of dollars at SPT and more often at the PF, so I guess you made at least ten bucks along the way. And noting I have introduced at least 4/5 semi-regulars there as well as brought countless other folk, I suggest you give me ten bucks Bill. But everyone knows any business man worth his weight would love a handout of ten bucks here and there. After all, you deserve it. Just ask any business man. They are owed it…… Or at least “Dayton” business men. You know what I am talking about, the “I opened a store” attitude….

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  14. Bubba Jones December 10, 2009 / 9:59 am
    Gene – for once I’m going to disagree with you.  I don’t know PizzaBill, but I’ve talked to him before while enjoying his great pizza!  I don’t think that Bill thinks that he “deserves” anything other than the opportunity to enjoy the semblance of the free market as it exists today.
     
    Bill – I have to agree with you about “watching TV” here.  I’ve only sat through one of these.  Quite frankly, my time is too limited sit through 6:43 of David and Greg ruminating about things that they can’t comprehend or control.  Like you, I skip straight to the comments now.  Maybe if they put that much time and effort into actually exploring the opportunities that exist in the marketplace today, they wouldn’t be complaining so much about how crappy things are.
     
     

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  15. Gene December 10, 2009 / 10:06 am
    I was kidding re: Bill.

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  16. David Esrati December 10, 2009 / 10:14 am

    @PizzaBill- I will still do written posts- just not daily- that was an election luxury. My old posting schedule was something like 3 times a week. I’ll probably exceed that. The video is an addition- for those that “want to put a face on the words.”

    @Gene- later is when I get to it- unless you want to pay me for my thoughts.

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  17. Gene December 10, 2009 / 10:30 am
    How much?

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  18. Bubba Jones December 10, 2009 / 10:34 am
    >>> “want to put a face on the words.” <<<
     
    Not YOUR faces!!  You guys ain’t that purty!! ;)
     

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  19. Ice Bandit December 12, 2009 / 3:14 pm
    How about this idea? Instead of the use of coercion to get folks to do what the Esrati-Hunter axis thinks is in the public good, give individuals the personal and financial freedom to do what they determine is best for themselves and then just let the chips fall where they may. Personal freedoms, such as a suspension of laws (like drug prohibitions) that protect folks from themselves, and financial freedom from the taxation that makes us all serfs to the state. Frankly, gentlemen, your cavalier dismissal of free markets in favor of the status quo is not just a little baffling. Our entire lives a ever decreasing number of elites have  forced every agenda item  from the debunked global warming hoax to multi culturalism on an increasingly hostile populus, and then had the gall to call us names when we balked and handed us the bill for the services not rendered…….

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  20. Bubba Jones December 12, 2009 / 3:44 pm
    Did Al Gore write an op-ed to her piece?  He’s certainly credible!!
     
    And DL – I think that even most of the progressives are admitting that GLOBAL WARMING has been debunked as a hoax since they’re now calling it CLIMATE CHANGE instead.
     
    Greg Hunter – I’m calling on your expertise as a trained geologist now!!  Was the geology of the Miami Valley influenced by climate change?  I’m speaking specifically of the abundance of underground water and the features dominant in the city of Moraine.  If it was influenced by climate change, what that climate change event caused by man?  Keep in mind that I only had three geology classes at WSU and only took geology as my science in order to go on the cool field trip to the Smokies!! ;)
     

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  21. Ice Bandit December 12, 2009 / 6:18 pm
    Mr. Lauri. From Piltdown Man to Lysenko genetics, academe is as rife with fraud as it is with fact. Geneticists confide that Gregor Mendel, the monk who fathered that science, probably fudged the results of his famous “bean” study because the results were a tad too perfect. So the recent discovery (by a hacker, rather than a scientist) that global warming data from the UK’s East Anglia University was just so much hot air (bad pun intended) should surprise only the true believers of the climate change religion. In fact, data plus observation from any Daytonian who has spent a winter weekend shoveling snow is that temperatures have been in decline for over a decade.  Put the global warming fraudmeisters in the same category as the cold fusion crew from Utah and the french geneticist LeMarck……..

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  22. jstults December 12, 2009 / 7:15 pm
    more climate change and global warming debunkery (or not) links over here: http://esrati.com/?p=3864
     
    IceBandit:

    Instead of the use of coercion…

    Exactly, we have all of these great community building and collaboration tools because of the internet, why not leverage some of that technology and get people to work on ‘the greater good’ in a cooperative manner?  That way nobody gets forced to support a ‘good’ they don’t really agree with.

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