The secret to economic development for Dayton

Reader Terry Murray sent me this beautiful link. But the final line is everything I’ve been trying to say for the last 4 years on Esrati.com

“What community ever screwed up by providing too much quality of life?” That ought to become the guiding principle of every city.

via CEOs for Cities :: What Makes a City Entrepreneurial?.

Sure, we could add the “cost of doing business” as a factor- for those who complain about tax overhead, but, let’s compare costs in NYC or LA?

Give me a break. People and business go where they want to live.

That’s defined by things that can’t be bought by individuals- but by communities. Pools, parks, rinks, public transit, arts, music, nightlife, safety…

not by handouts to corporations.

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29 Responses

  1. Emily March 15, 2010 / 9:33 pm
    Don’t forget nice grocery stores!

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  2. Jesse March 15, 2010 / 9:44 pm
    David,

    It isn’t that we want other than nice communities. It is that all of the things that u think make nice communities are potential malinvestments of other people’s capital. If you want a pool, a park, buses, etc. and think that a market exists then open a business that provides access to such items. This way we have the best of both worlds. I have freedom and you have a nice pool. Compulsion doesn’t make for better communities. Freedom does.

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  3. rob March 15, 2010 / 9:50 pm
    Well said, kinda like kill em with kindness…

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  4. Gene March 16, 2010 / 6:18 pm
    DE, then you pay for it.

    In Dayton these things are trashed, spray painted and used as hangouts for teenage drug losers, which says a lot considering Dayton has a lot of those kind of kids.
    I want to keep my money. I am sick of seeing new school buildings or parks that get pissed on all the time. Enough with pissing on my money.

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  5. Shortwest Rick March 17, 2010 / 1:15 am
    Applying Maslow’s hierarchy of needs to a community, Dayton may have reached level four during the industrial area and refuses to realize it has been debased back to level one. The problem is we were all taught in varying degrees that moving up that scale is accomplished by chasing the almighty dollar. Some people think we can jump over levels two and three, security, employment and community to be back at level four, community leaders believe we are still in confidence, respect by others mode and we only need to throw more money at it to succeed to level five. David, you who advocates basic city services amaze me sometimes when you roll arts and nightlife into the same paragraph. In my opinion, Dayton can only move forward by going back and working the second step, security, health, prosperity, or coming to beleive that the power of community is greater than ourselves and could restore us to sanity, whichever.

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  6. David Esrati March 17, 2010 / 6:35 am

    @Shortwest- The arts and nightlife aren’t government responsibilities- they come after the basics have been met. I’ve been advocating getting basic services right first – since my first run for office over 20 years ago.

    Other than that- I’m in total agreement with your assessment.

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  7. Gene March 17, 2010 / 8:21 am
    Define “basics/ basic services.”
    I think you may not understand the word basic, or you are throwing things into a “basics” category that do not need to be there. Your definition involves things that go beyond just “basics.” This may show how far our society has come when you consider that a lot of people don’t having running water in the world. So define “basics/basic services.”
    Parks are great, but are not basic. They are a luxary. Most adults understand this point.

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  8. David Esrati March 17, 2010 / 11:17 am

    @gene most “adults” like parks. They also like good schools, safe neighborhoods, nice people.

    I’m starting to think that you are the cancer in Dayton. Your negativity oozes throughout the entire city.

    And, yes- running water is a basic here- we’re not a third world country…. yet.

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  9. Jesse March 17, 2010 / 12:11 pm
    If “most” “adults” like parks then are they willing to pay for them with their own money?  Do they only “like” parks when they can pay for them with other people’s money?  How much do you have to “like” something to say, “sure, I will take the ability to access a thing for only 1/250,000 of its cost, while I use it 1/250.”  If people who want parks were made to bear the burden of the park, would we have as many parks?  Might we not have more businesses because we could lower taxes?  Unintended consequences exist for both private and public investments.  If they go bad in private sector the company goes bankrupt, if they are bad in the public sector we say, “see these things are failing because they are underfunded, the parks are dirty or have graffiti, the schools are failing; we need more money for these “vital” or “basic” things.”

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  10. Gene March 17, 2010 / 2:21 pm
    Sure, people love parks. They love toilets also. Is this why our parks are treated like toilets?

    My point is that our city parks are a waste of time and money. We, at this point in time, can not afford them. Other “basics” are also “not in the budget” at this time. We should address them after we address important issues.

    You did not define basics or basic services.

    Why are parks in Centerville and Oakwood and Beavercreek nice? Is it money? Maybe. But please note those communities have people who care and do not treat their parks like toilets. Dayton kids, and the wonderful adults who raise them, love to let their dogs shit in the park without removal of waste, 476 billion cigarette butts on the ground, not to mention the graffiti and drug use and trash and alcohol abuse. Sure, Dayton parks are used all the time – for the wrong reasons.

    Keep taxing DE. Tax to the point where the wealthy are poor and the poor are still poor. Way to go Captain Government!

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  11. Rob Degenhart March 17, 2010 / 2:37 pm
    Where can I buy “I Hate Gene” bumper stickers?

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  12. Jesse March 17, 2010 / 3:09 pm
    Rob,
    Literally laughed out loud.
    If there were a big enough market I would think that Gene would start a company that supplied them.  In the absence of that market I would suggest that you talk to David and see if he can tax people to subsidize your bumper sticker factory.
     

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  13. Gene March 17, 2010 / 3:16 pm
    Just make one yourself.

    You must hate the truth as well then.

    I have been to two parks in the last two weeks (3 times for one park, 2 for the other) and they are just run down with poop and butts and beer cans and spray paint and you can tell this has not been addressed in years. Beavercreek and Kettering and Oakwood and Centerville and Springboro really don’t have these problems. Wonder why?

    Go ahead an make excuses for these losers. I won’t.

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  14. Bruce Kettelle March 17, 2010 / 3:32 pm
    Gene, can you point me to the source of your statistic: “476 billion cigarette butts”?
    :)

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  15. Drexel Dave Sparks March 17, 2010 / 3:33 pm
    Gene has been hired by to do public relations for the new Can’t Corporation.

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  16. Drexel Dave Sparks March 17, 2010 / 3:35 pm
    Could it be that the City of Dayton has all but abandoned many of its parks except for the occasional mowing?
    Perhaps the drinking, ciggie-butts, etc…are really nothing more than a manifestation of The City of Dayton not taking care of its properties properly.
    And if the city does it, why shouldn’t the residents?

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  17. Gene March 17, 2010 / 3:44 pm
    I counted them myself. I may be off a thousand or two.

    Regardless if the city screwed up, it is not cool for people to leave dog shit in parks, beer cans, butts, drugs, etc, and spray painting gang signs is not cool either. Why do you defend these losers? Perhaps you folks are guilty as well?
    Hey, no one is home at this house, why not take the copper and siding? That is your logic Drexel. Then again we all know….

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  18. Drexel Dave Sparks March 17, 2010 / 3:54 pm
    No, that is the logic that you say I have. But you are either not telling the truth or just misrepresenting me, which is par for the course.
    What I’m saying is don’t expect anyone to care for anything that isn’t worth caring for. Why is  this so hard for your old grumpy pickled-ass to understand?
    When the city abandons its parks, they are saying, “we do not care about this place.” When they clean the parks up, offer programming and ensure a safe environment (its basic function), then people treat parks as a place that they care about.
    Why do you say I defend these “losers” when I specifically chastised the City for not taking care of its own places ? Why do you defend the losers at City Hall Gene? The neglect by the pubic is just a natural offshoot of the neglect at the higher level.
    Dayton has no special kind of DNA when it comes to these things. The same things that happen here happen in every place that abandons itself.

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  19. Gene March 17, 2010 / 4:46 pm
    Chicken or the Egg? Yes, city hall neglects it, but only after losers (that you support and defend) ruin it for everyone else.

    The truth is both are to blame, and I never would defend city hall. But dog shit and beer cans and butts are against the law. These losers ruin it for others. I see it at my nearby park.

    Natural offshoot? You mean criminal acts like litering and graffiti? Oh, it ok to break the law when the city drops the ball. Or maybe the city said frick this shit bc losers keep frickin it up…. Who is to say, but either way Dayton has a bunch or dirty butts who can’t follow rules. They seem to follow rules well in the suburbs… why is this DD?

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  20. Shortwest Rick March 17, 2010 / 9:24 pm
    Funny, over here where I live ( in the city ) we have a pretty nice park, but admittedly the neighbors do a lot of the work, we call it taking pride in our area. Neighbors plant the planters every spring, weed, pick up the trash, decorate with lights at Christmas. Surely people driving by think the city does all this and shows favoritism to our area but that’s just not the case. I guess if we didn’t do all that we could sit around and whine about how trashy our park looked.

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  21. jstults March 18, 2010 / 10:03 am
    Where can I buy “I Hate Gene” bumper stickers?

    Here; nothing personal Gene, it’s just business ; )

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  22. David Esrati March 18, 2010 / 10:11 am

    @Jstults- add “But I love esrati.com” below it- and I’d think about buying one….

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  23. Gene March 18, 2010 / 10:12 am
    I find this to be wrong. You people are being mean. I should take you all to court. You liberals are mean people. You all are haters. Liberals are the ones who discriminate against the truth, and white people like me. Unreal.

    Help!!!!

    :)

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  24. Jesse March 18, 2010 / 11:14 am
    Gene,
    Sorry, all of us libertarians are really cowards at heart.  No evidence of any courage of our convictions.  Primarily because we like to avoid convictions.
     

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  25. Gene March 18, 2010 / 11:25 am
    I think it is funny that DE thinks people love him and love his web klek. An ego yes, a brain, well… … .. not sure.

    Esrati and his absolute love of taxing people to death is the story here folks. Esrati has never met a tax he did not like.

    As if like little shit parks will help this city. Go get your cup of coffee and sit around defending criminals and bike paths. Liberals thought…. like DDS and his wishing laws would put his music on the radio … is why we have the city we have. Billy billy billy billy……

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  26. Rob Degenhart March 18, 2010 / 11:31 am
    @jstults Thanks for the bumper sticker!
    New Bumper Sticker Idea:
    Discriminating against old white conservative males is cool, they’re overdue!

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  27. David Esrati March 18, 2010 / 12:21 pm

    @Jstults- but now the price is $1 more… I’ll make ’em myself here-

    Sell them for $2 ea… :-)

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  28. jstults March 18, 2010 / 2:38 pm
    now the price is $1 more…

    You’re paying extra for the ‘value added’.
     
    The Heart of a Capitalist revealed:

    I’ll make ‘em myself here- Sell them for $2 ea…

    Oh what terrible beauty!  Dear Market, what a harsh mistress thou truly art.
     
    Clearly the Bumper Sticker Industry in Grafton Hill needs some sweet, sweet subsidy so we can compete with those low-wage, low-quality scoundrels down in South Park.  Save me DDC!  Where’s my mule?

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