The real criminals in our midst
If you sell a gun to a guy who kills people with it- do they stop you from selling guns? No.
If you sell a car to someone who kills people in it- do they stop you from selling cars? No.
But if you sell liquor to someone, and the police get called to deal with a drunk- then we stop you from selling liquor. Yep.
And then we wonder why there are so few places doing business in Dayton anymore.
Until Christmas day of 2010, for the two years previous, we’ve had the police on our street at least 3 times a week- all to the same house. Did the city charge them extra for the nuisance? Nope. Did they shut the house down? Nope. What finally happened is one person in the house finally went to prison- yet, in those two years the crime rate on this block skyrocketed.
And then we have Cold Beer & Cheeseburgers- a business that bucked the trend 18 years ago and moved downtown when everyone else was moving out. They happen to be just next to the “Private promenade ” of RTA where civil liberties are ignored and the law is carried out with a big stick- which forces people to loiter next door- in front of…. Cold Beer and Cheeseburgers.
They are now being threatened with losing their liquor license:
According to a March 30 letter from the Dayton City Commission to Byers, the Dayton Police Department objected to the Cold Beer & Cheeseburgers liquor permit renewal. Details of the police department’s objection were not available late Monday.
An “informal resolution” objecting to the liquor permit will have its first reading at the city commission meeting scheduled for 8:30 a.m. Wednesday, April 13, and city commissioners will vote on the issue at their April 20 meeting, the letter said.
In his email, Byers asks customers to come to either commission meeting “and speak on our behalf.” Byers wrote, “If I cannot garner support in this matter, then I will accept that (Cold Beer & Cheeseburgers) is no longer viable downtown.”
The restaurant has been open for 18 years.
via Restaurant owner objects to police opposition to liquor license renewal.
This is not a rough-neck bar- nor, one that has brawls breaking out either. It’s actually a family friendly kind of place. Yet, somehow, instead of arresting the drunks, we’re going after the business that employs probably 40 people, feeds downtown workers, and pays taxes.
I urge each and every one of you to consider writing an e-mail in support of Cold Beer and Cheeseburgers- or at least adding your comments to this post- which will be read by the members of the City Commission.
Maybe we should use the same logic for our police department? CB&CB pays taxes for the police to do their jobs- arresting the people causing problems. If the police can’t do their job- maybe we should take away their badges and their jobs instead?
Very well put!
Now what will it take to get the attention of the public?
How much more business can we chase from Dayton, Ohio?
The Dayton Police Dept. mentality is : “throw it to the courts, and let them make a determination!” and of course the Montgomery County courts and Matt Heck’s 95% conviction rate, decide in favor of the Dayton Police, because that is who generates their business…..
After growing up in Dayton, and 50 years a native Daytonian….
I am not proud of where I live.
When I worked downtown, I’d make it a point to have lunch periodically at CB&C…great ambiance and great food. Please let it thrive in Downtown Dayton…and renew its license.
Didn’t Ned Peppers have this same “issue” ? That is, there were problems outside or near their location, but the police reports listed their address as the site of the problem. I can understand the officer’s side where he/she gives the location as “in front of CB&CB” but not directly implying CB&CB is the cause of the problem.
Leave it to our wonderful local government officials to find the absolute worst way to deal with a situation that their new RTA hub at least partially created. Instead of working against businesses they should be working WITH businesses.
Mark up another BIG FAIL, in a long long list, for the collective individuals who run our local government. What a way to encourage downtown business…
If every piece of trash in Dayton wasn’t hanging out downtown because of the RTA stop, CB&CB wouldn’t have any problems outside of the restaurant. I work in courthouse square and not a day goes by I’m not bothered for money or even being asked to buy someone lunch. Why doesn’t the City Commission do something about that instead of bother businesses?
FYI. Matt Heck might not tip it towards the side of the Dayton police.
CB&CB is one of the “nice places” where they like to go after a long day in court.
Two possible solutions: Why can’t Cold Beer hire a full-time security guard?
Why can’t Cold Beer refuse to sell to a drunk, or at least after the drunk starts getting loaded? Cut ’em off!
I like the full time security guard idea. We need a full time security guard in Dayton to keep the trash away from the entire city not just CB and CB.
We need more details on the police objection before presuming CB&CB needs to hire security, etc, etc. The DDN article even stated “Details of the police department’s objection were not available late Monday”.
@ Gary and Clapper. That is what the police are for. It is not CBCB responsibility to control what happens outside the restaurant. The city needs to do their job and hire enough police to cover the city. Mr. Byers is a great business man and has several business in the Dayton area creating jobs and tax revenue. Taking away the liquor license is a bad idea. Like the otheres above, if there is a problem outside, that address is used. That is taken into consideration when the liquor license is up for renewal. Even if it had notheing to do with the business. I hope the city really takes it into consideration. Mr. Byers works hard to run business that do good for the community. Do not take his license away.
He should just go to the council meeting and ask them point-blank, “Do you want me to close my restaurants because of problems I didn’t cause or do you want to help solve the problem ?”. I’d emphasize the plural restaurants too !!
I’m so tired of The City of Dayton blaming businesses for the acts of the public!! If the City would increas police presence downtown maybe people from the suburbs would come downtown again and support businesses which in turn would increase taxes paid to the City. But no!!! We just want to run business out of downtown!! Come on City of Dayton WAKE UP!!!!
The DDN article has been edited to remove a statement attributed to Bob where he said that most of the RTA customers were good, hard-working people. While I’m sure he was just being kind – spending 5 minutes anywhere in the vicinity of that RTA hub will show you that it’s nothing more than a gathering spot for hoodlums and people with nothing better to do. Now, I’m just being kind.
It’s not fair that the city is taking the path of least resistance. It’s not like CB&CB is causing this problem.
I have to say as a patron of this restaurant that he can not help who comes in the bar. He does kick people out if they are being unruly or causing trouble, but if he were just kicking people out for looking like hoodlums he would be called out for stereotyping. He allows everyone the chance as long as they are paying customers, I watched him remove people for using hate speech and trying to cause a scene. He has a choice to just pack up and leave, but he has not. And if the PD realizes there is a problem maybe they should have a stronger presence in that part of town. How about a constant police presence around the RTA stop, That would be a better solution in my opinion.
And Bret, now that spring is here, I wonder if the Dayton PD will bring back out their horses and bikes?
Does Cold Beer have a bouncer?
No, they have a manager. He is the one who does the enforcing. Why should they need one when they are serving food? Should UNO’s get one as well? How about Side Bar, Boulevard Haus, Coco’s and Jays? We pay taxes to enforce safety and the Dayton police department is failing to keep the peace. They should be ashamed of themselves for even suggesting this, because essentially they are admitting that they are not able to do their job.
It is such a pleasure to live in a city run by liberals, labor unions, and racist democrats. It will take a protest on the same scale of Egypt to get the criminals out of this city. It is nice that CB and CB keeps making a great effort to stay in business depite the libtards and racists that run this city doing nothing but screwing them. What would the legal hurdles be for forming a citizen group or some type of militia to patrol and protect our city at night when the scum is out and the cops are busy not protecting our homes and businesses?
The empty house next door has a back yard being used as a city dump.
When it contained some 50 TV sets, I called the housing inspectors and before the next trash pickup, the mess was gone.
Now people are dumping tires there. I called the same number at City Hall and was told to call the priority board. Huh?
The DDN article has been edited to remove a statement attributed to Bob where he said that most of the RTA customers were good, hard-working people. While I’m sure he was just being kind – spending 5 minutes anywhere in the vicinity of that RTA hub will show you that it’s nothing more than a gathering spot for hoodlums and people with nothing better to do. Now, I’m just being kind. Not to pick on “allison” but this statement is a great example of everything I’m learning to loathe about the attitudes of people here in Dayton. First of all, it literally asserts that all people who use the bus are no good. It writes hardworking people who choose to take the bus to work for environmental or financial reasons out of existence–the only reason the hub exists is for hoodlums! No one else could possibly use it for any purpose whatsoever, because all good, socially acceptable people drive everywhere they go. Secondly, this statement dramatically overstatess the case. I use the hub regularly (for non-hoodlum purposes, Allison, I’m a teacher who takes the bus to work. We exist!) and walk by CBCB all the time. Are there some sketchy characters there sometimes? Yes. But it’s really pretty mild stuff by any standard. I swear, only in Dayton do people talk about a homeless person asking for change as if it’s some sort of traumatic experience. For the three years prior to moving to Dayton, I transferred busses at the 3rd and Pine stop in downtown Seattle, sometimes at night. The drunkenness/prostitution/homelessness/drug dealing quotient at that location put anything the RTA hub has going on to shame–it was much, much worse. Occasionally politicians and the local media would fret and wring their hands about it, but nothing much was ever done. I generally felt more or less safe there, and nothing ever happened to me (the drug dealers know middle class white people getting messed with is bad for business, after all). Note that the existence of this problematic corner seemed to not have any particular impact on the development of the… Read more »
also slated for various objections for liquor license renewal: CVS (on the square), Hammerjacks, and 88 Club, as discussed at the Downtown Priority Board Meeting earlier this week…
I work around the corner from Cold Beer & Cheeseburgers. I have lunch there about once a week. It’s a great place, safe, clean, and with good food & service at reasonable prices. I also ride the bus, along with dozens to hundreds of downtown workers and workers changing buses at the RTA hub, not just the low-lifes to which other commenters have alluded.
RTA created the private pavilion so it could trespass off the “undesirables,” which it couldn’t do when the buses stopped on a public streetcorner. So, what’s the natural consequence of evicting those judged too disruptive or criminal to ride a public bus? They end up in front of neighboring businesses. On that block, moving from north to south, you have a vacant building, then the RTA, then a parking garage entrance, then Cold Beer & Cheeseburgers, and finally a day care. Of all those, who’s the likeliest target for blame about the kind of people hanging out on the block? The one with the liquor license, of course.
Naturally, the safety and security at Fourth & Jefferson would only be increased by having yet another vacant storefront on that block. The City is wise beyond my comprehension, clearly. Sigh.
Gary, are you the same guy who calls for smaller government and next-to-nothing taxes?
Well, you’re position is consistent. So long as tax rates remain artificially low, we will continue to have too few police officers and other public safety workers–and law enforcement will suffer. “Undesirables” on the street is but one symptom.
Most of us will consider your solution unsatisfactory: if all law enforcement has to be hired in the private sector, then (a) law enforcement will be concerned with the wishes of the employer and not safety for everyone (b) many will be unable to afford law enforcement. Perhaps add (c), many security firms will try to operate on the cheap with unqualified officers.
If we say “it’s up to the police”, I agree, but we need to increase public revenues in order to hire enough police and to equip them well so they can do their job.
@ Truddick…I like your statement. Especially the last part. However the city keeps blaming the business in the area and penelizing them for something they have no control over. So they take away the license and the business can’t survive. So no taxes from the business, no taxes from the employees and another vacant space downtown. The city needs to work with these business and increase patrols in the troubled area. Like Mr. Byers said yesterday, the issues that are in question happen outside his restaurant and have nothing to do with alcohol consumption inside. The city commission and priority board need to open their eyes and see the whole picture and not just what is written in a police report that just happens to not be available to the media. Nice.
Yesterday’s City Commission Meeting on all this was very informative and interesting … I think I watched it all, therefore, I did my homework for this post … Did you?
The BBB was there, all but one owner of the bars in question, and a few citizens speaking for Cold Beer were there testifying. The Big E. (not a rapper) was there defending his bar, Mr. Cold Beer (Bob) was there, and a rep(s) for the car bar? and for Club 88!
Oh, and of course, COPS chewing their gum were there hazing …
Basically, everyone thew stones or defended the owners. I found it quite informative how the building and parking garage owners put in their two cents, saying if the bars leave, that would leave vacant / non-taxed space.
Nan was cool, saying the Commission go through all these liquer licences renewals quartly? and have to make tough decisions! So if the City Commissioners are indeed reading this blog; I say, leave them all alone and put more patrol at their sites, and don’t complain when you are called there b/c as the ol’ saying goes: That’s your job!
Next Wednesday we will know which bars get the boot and which ones stay.
I cannot believe that they are trying to hammer the businesses. Especially CB&ChB. Given the dearth of business activity downtown I would think the commission would have sense enough to help the businesses and that the police would not blame the bars but take responsibility and step up their patrols or whatever they do. Go ahead Dayton, just close downtown down. What a shame. On the other hand Cincinnati has quite a vibrant downtown and it has not always been that way. Is it trouble free? Nope. But it is very heavily patrolled and crime is relatively low. Do your job DPD.
I watched the meeting and must have missed the “hazing” part.
I did like the lady who ripped on Whaley as well as the two who talked about Maj or Lt Faulkner and the things he told them and apparently then holds it against them. Ouch !
I watched the meeting. The police were apparently there to receive an award. The professional thing for them to do is NOT get up and leave in the middle of a public meeting. So that is irrelevant to this topic.
While it is easy to criticize this situation, I notice that few comments here take the perspective of OTHER businesses in the area. I like CBCB restaurants around the area as much as anyone, but if serving alcohol attracts the wrong kind of crowd, don’t you think the neighbors will be complaining? Isnt’ there a day care next door now?
So if you start with a pro-downtown attitude, then what is more imporant – one restaurant paying (maybe) a barely living wage, or the dozens of higher paying companies around it?
From watching the meeting, it seems like the bars are willing to work with the City. If so, there should be reason enough to cancel the objection. Both sides should give a little ground. No one wants an empty storefront, but nobody wants to leave these concerns unresolved either.
It also seems like smart politics to use both carrots AND sticks, depending on the situation. Sometimes the carrot is when you offer to take away the stick.
PS. It seems worth noting that only the STATE of OHIO can pull the liquor permit. Cities can only declare an objection to them. Often, these objections go unheard and nothing happens anyway.
@CSAPT, Yes, there is a daycare next door to Cold Beer & Cheeseburgers. I’ve not heard that they are objecting to the liquor permit renewal. Have you? If they did, it would be like moving into a house next to the railroad tracks then complaining about the trains. CBCB was there for at least a decade, maybe two, before the daycare moved into the space vacated by the Access Center, a disability services organization.
To my mind, a business shouldn’t be held responsible for the goings on adjacent to that business, unless it’s the cause of those goings on. CBCB is not accused of serving intoxicated people or tolerating antisocial behavior on its premises, so how, exactly, is it responsible for what unrelated third parties do on public property?
Last I checked, antisocial behavior on public property was within the remit of the city, not of Bob Burnett or anyone else. Isn’t it aboiut time we held the City responsible for effectively policing the downtown. Perhaps, as has been said above about Cincinnati, better policing will draw the suburban crowd back into the city, at least to visit.
I like CBCB restaurants around the area as much as anyone, but if serving alcohol attracts the wrong kind of crowd, don’t you think the neighbors will be complaining? – CSAPT
Apparently serving barbecue attracts the wrong kind of crowd too since there were two kids hit by bullets outside of Hook’s BBQ the other night. Not to mention that the BBQ restaurant owner’s own mother was shot and killed at the same restaurant in 2000. Using your logic, CSAPT, we should revoke their vendor’s license, health department permits and occupancy permits to shut them down as well.
It’s not the alcohol being served at CB&CB that’s attracting the wrong crowed. I’m not going to repeat what Mr. Brack wrote above; suffice it to say – he’s right.
By the way, I am in NO WAY trying to make light of what happened to those poor kids the other night. Say a little prayer for them.
Interesting reading. Sincce Im now an RTA rider it’s particulary relevant, some of this discussion. I don’t have any problem at all with RTA security and DPD kicking out the troublemakers from the RTA property. Ive seen them do it with one guy while waiting for the bus on morning, when he was threatening his old lady or something. No one needs to hear that kind of stuff and kudos to RTA enforcing certain standards of public order.
Cold Beer unfortunatly apparently is the hangout bar near the hub. If it wasnt that place it would probably be the Century.
My experience with that particular Cold Beer and Cheeseburgers was that the service was atrocious. And one time while having a cold beer and a cheesburger with a friend these two guys sitting in a table next to ours wanted me to buy them a shot. Of liquor, I guess. I ignored them and they asked again and I said no. Now no one going out for dinner and a drink expects to be hassled by people at a neighboring table to buy them some booze. I guess this is a new form of the “street tax”.
Sp, yeah, in my limited experience with the place no loss if it closes. Too bad becuase it used to be pretty good, way back when it opened. I think they need new management and staff. And maybe a bouncer. If the presnet owner or manager is so concerned about making a buck that he doesn’t care about his clientele and the kind of environment they create, well, cue the violins. Too bad for him if he gets some pushback on that.
@Jeff D- same owner the whole time. I’ve had good and bad service there. I’ve never been a big fan of the brand- since I think cheese on a burger is what you do to cover up cheap beef- and I don’t drink- but that’s beside the point.
The reality is- go by any day- and you see the spillover of people smoking and hanging out right around the corner from the RTA pavilion- doing the things they can’t do inside it. This is why the police list the address as place of arrest.
The alcohol sales have little to do with the problems- so killing the liquor license won’t change the crime stats.
This is just another public airing of the problems we have with a decreased police force, a poor population and a prosecutor that fails to prosecute.
Trust me- you don’t get a second chance to be unruly in Greene County- you get three years in the State penitentiary.
….there can be no question that bus hubs attract dysfunction the way roadkill beckons vultures. Indeed, there are many who attribute the bus hub culture to the demise of the Salem Mall. The Dayton Mall, noting this trend and scratching for its’ corporate existence in an era when malls are closing en masse, moved it’s hub from the Mall property to a off grounds Gulag that is the equivalent of Mall Siberia. Furthermore, when the RTA hub was at it’s previous site at Third and Main, several cops were detailed to de-facto baby-sitting duty to keep a lid on the chaos. Yet, when the good folks of Beavercreek tell the RTA “no” and “hell no” to a bus hub at the Fairfield Mall, a number of contributors to Esrati.com reacted with a dissapalooza of that tranquil Greene County enclave. Sounds like this post validates Beavercreek’s wisdom…….
Yet, when the good folks of Beavercreek tell the RTA “no” and “hell no” to a bus hub at the Fairfield Mall, a number of contributors to Esrati.com reacted with a dissapalooza of that tranquil Greene County enclave.
I’ve never been all that impressed with your contributions, Ice Bandit, but I certainly believed you to be bright enough to distinguish between a bus hub on the one hand a bus stop on the other. This is not a trivial distinction: there are literally thousands of bus stops in the greater Dayton area, many of which exist in upscale suburban areas, that have no discernable impact on crime whatsoever (next to The Greene; up and down Far Hills in Oakwood, on SR 48 through downtown Centerville, etc). There are, in fact, five hubs, and there is no plan for a hub at the Fairfield mall, since only one bus route comes anywhere near it.
I’ve never been all that impressed with your contributions, Ice Bandit, but I certainly believed you to be bright enough to distinguish between a bus hub on the one hand a bus stop on the other (djw)
…thanks for the critique, dear djw. And you are correct in the bus stop-bus hop distinction, and perhaps too generous in attributing intelligence to others. But regardless if it was a bus stop or a bus hub, the elected officials of Beavercreek’s first responsibility are to the folks in that Greene County jurisdiction, and not to making the lives of people in adjoining counties easier. And you can bet that when the RTA issue was on the table, Beavercreek officials were getting an earfull from their constituents. Remember, dear djw, that when the Salem Mall was in its’ death throes, that the Shiloh Springs hub did not exist and the mayhem there was at a bus stop. This was at a time when a deputized Security Guard rode on the bus from the Mall to downtown. The current trend in mall building is to find a cornfield between two tourist attractions 30 miles from the nearaest stop or hub and drop it there, giving access to only the most dedicated shoppers in cars. Fact is, as an outspoken advocate of property rights, methinks the issue should have ended as soon as the Fairfield Mall voiced their displeasure. So having read about or witnessed bus stop craziness in Dayton (like the mini-riot that over-ran downtown a couple of summers back) perhaps this is a side show the good folks of the Creek thought they could do without. As David so aptly opines in a previous post, what passes for normal in Dayton gets ‘ya a nickel in London when done in the Creek. So perhaps that’s why the good folks of the Creek told the RTA thanks but no thanks. Or perhaps just no thanks…….
@ Ice Bandit…Let’s stay on topic. This issue at hand is holding the CITY RESPONSIBLE for keeping the peace in public areas near the downtown hub. Like David Esrati said above “The reality is- go by any day- and you see the spillover of people smoking and hanging out right around the corner from the RTA pavilion- doing the things they can’t do inside it. This is why the police list the address as place of arrest.” Because of this the CITY is using this info to ruin an indepentant business owner who has nothing to do with what happens out side his restaurant. The POLICE need to do their job and get out of the cars and patrol the area on foot.
This issue at hand is holding the CITY RESPONSIBLE for keeping the peace in public areas near the downtown hub. (Jason Boydston)
…you are, of course, correct dear Jason. However, many of us who have lived here long gave up on the premise of the city acting responsibly about the same time Elvis left the building for the last time. The libertarian could argue for the privatization of streets or the abolition of liquor licenses, both of which would solve this problem in an afternoon, but these are topics for another day. What is most surprising is that CB&C has endured what the city and the RTA have dumped upon them and still want to do business here, when countless other watering holes have run up the white flag and skidaddled to the relative sanity of the burbs. The city, of course, knows that Cold Beer and Cheeseburgers strives to be an upfront establishment, and is neither a den of thieves, an opium den, nor the cantina from Star Wars, but pursues its’ draconian policy anyway. So it is therefore up to folks like you to step up and let the pub know you support them and let the city know your discontent won’t be forgotten come election day, though the Old Bandito suspects you already have…..
Agree with your most recent comment, IB, including the part about liquor licenses but not the madness about privatized roads (as usual, libertarianism is right about half the time…). However, this:
Fact is, as an outspoken advocate of property rights, methinks the issue should have ended as soon as the Fairfield Mall voiced their displeasure.
seems to me to be based on a fundamentally unworkable and rather strange conception of property rights. Until libertopia is achieved and all roads are privatized, which I am quite sure, both roads and sidewalks remain public property. I haven’t personally examined every deed and title, but I am very skeptical that ownership of property gives one an absolute veto on what may be done with public property in the general vicinity. If I own a house, I don’t really shut off access to a nearby road to busses, or 18-wheelers, or anything else. Right?
@ DJW. Not the topic at hand. @ Ice. I agree with what you said above. However the phrase: “However, many of us who have lived here long gave up on the premise of the city acting responsibly about the same time Elvis left the building for the last time.” is also part of the problem. I an not willing to give up on this city. We have a great thing here. We are on the right path in some parts. Progress is slow but moving forward. I will be and have been publicly voicing my openion. I have e-mailed the entire city commission and Mayor. There is a group I belong to on FB called Takeover. It is a group of gay men and women and anyone that wants to show support for downtown business. Once a month we go out to eat on a Monday to show support for local business and help boost what normally would be a slow day for a restaurant. Today we are going at 7pm to CBCB to show our support. I also have this post on my FB page that I move to the front a couple times a day. I will also be at the commission meeting on Wed. And I use my real name on here. I am going to explore running for commision the next time around. I have also been considering opening a restaurant downtown as well. Only time will tell. I hope the commissioners are reading this blog. If so, I will see you on Wed.
Send an e-mail to the city commissioners in support of CBCB Downtown…I did the work to find the e-mail address, now get busy. Commissioner Matt Joseph & Joey Williams: [email protected] , Mayor Gary Leitzell: [email protected] , Commissioner Dean Lovelace: [email protected] , Commissioner Nan Whaley: [email protected] , City Commissioners Main E-Mail: [email protected] v
The main things Dayton needs right now- more than anything are JOBS! Why is the issure of jobs being belabored and delayed? I was going to apply at the AF/Space Museum if we got the shuttle …
I’m sorry, but Dayton can do w/o many of the clubs and restaurants; however, I realize they pay taxes to help Dayton and employ a few folks …
But I would bet that several Daytonians have been out of work for five (5) years like me! Now I must job hunt …
@Jason, what is an FB?
FYI to all readers: Today’s grammar lesson is, the word its is already possessive, you don’t use its’ ever! It’s a nice day in Dayton; except its (Dayton’s) roads are bumpy and holey … ;-) =-0 :-{ :-!
Ironically, at last Wednesday’s Commission Meeting, four (4) officers were commended; what have they done for downtown streets bums? If they can protect and draw a plan for pizza drivers’ safety, why not fix a few blocks of loiterers? Hey, I have a plan Commissioners- build a legal garage for bums, homeless folks, looters and crooks to hang out in all day to drink and smoke to their hearts’ content! Thank God the gay population is mellow- but it seems they get all the jobs though! Just an observation … Now I really need to job hunt now, bye.
@ Gary, FB (Face Book). I under stand about the job situstion. I have been out of work for over a year now. A side effect of the loss of a liquor license would be the loss of jobs and the loss of business downtown and more vacant store fronts, just what the city does not need. And just an FYI, The service/restaurant industry is the largest employer in the US. The gays are fairly mellow in Dayton. I am not sure what you mean by they get all the jobs. That is off topic though. If you wish to chat at me about that feel free to e mail me. Put in subject Gays have jobs. [email protected] I do however agree with some of what you wrote.
I’m fascinated by the mentality of someone who can type:
The main things Dayton needs right now- more than anything are JOBS!
And then just seconds later, type:
Dayton can do w/o many of the clubs and restaurants
without any apparent cognitive dissonance whatsoever. Yes, we need jobs, no, harrassing existing successful employers out of our city runs counter to that goal. This is not complicated.
As for the rest of your comment, it’s the classic Dayton pearl-clutching that we haven’t done enough to protect your delicate little soul from resting eyes on a homeless person–perhaps even an inebriated one!
Name one thriving, successful, vibrant city–one which you’d like to see Dayton be more like–in which there are no homeless people, drunks, or panhandlers. I’ve spent time in many of this country’s major cities, and I have yet to find one that doesn’t have much more of this than Dayton. It’s utterly bizzare how Daytonians (and I don’t mean to pick on Gary, I keep hearing this in many different circles) are uniquely unable to cope with this mundane, banal fact of city life.
The real criminals in our midst are probably big, rich corporate businessmen and women, Senators and Republicans in the State and Federal Governments moreso than City, or Local big wigs! It’s very complicated, but seems to me, we could if we wanted to, eradicate all homelessness, etc. But I know it’s just a dream of mine!
I think my point was, there are too many folks who want white collar jobs than there are those types of jobs, in Dayton. Who besides me hasn’t had any type of health insurance, vision and dental in the past six years?
How much do small businesses, especially bars, clubs and grills, really help with Dayton’s economy?
And now we are seeing companies like NCR move out; but we still have UD, Kodak, R&R and so on …
But again, at the last City Commission meeting, the City Manager had a good point that being a Dayton COP is dangerous and well respected, even though they cannot do it all, we need to get off our cans and do something, too–good luck Dayton!
What people don’t know is that the commission is not objecting because of the people outside, but the workers on the inside. They were busted again on Friday for selling DRUGS from inside the establishment. This is the problem, and the answer is even more easy clean house and get a new staff. Hire people that don’t sell drugs and can read a photo ID. Follow the rules or go out of business; it dose no good for the city receive taxes from a restaurant only to spend them on policing that business.
@etack, the bust on Friday was a patron, not an employee. That’s slightly less disturbing, but still not great news for CBCB and the Council vote tomorrow night.
(the Fairfield Commons and Beavercreek’s refusal to RTA) seems to me to be based on a fundamentally unworkable and rather strange conception of property rights. (djw)
…not at all dear djw. This dog and pony show between the Fairfield Commons and the RTA has been ongoing for over a decade, and if the Commons gave their permission, the RTA wouldn’t even need consult with the Beavercreek burgermeisters. However, by trying to back-door access to the Mall, the RTA is taking up the characteristics of a stalker. And why should Creek politicos antagonize a reluctant Mall management and major revenue source just because some folks in another jurisdiction think it’s a good idea? The Mall nor the Creek want it, and the RTA should call off the dogs…..
(as usual, libertarianism is right about half the time…) (djw)
…you are assuming, incorrectly dear djw, that there is one consistent libertarian dicta. Trust the Old Bandito that there is more diversity in thought among Libertarians than between either the Republicrats or the Demoplicans. The difference between the two major parties is the GOP is for big and intrusive government and the Dems favor intrusive and big government. And thanks, dear djw, for noticing that libertarians are right 50 percent of the time, which is a 50 percent higher than the Republicans and Democrats combined……
Basically I’ll bet, as alluded to already, The Fairfield Commons and the Beavercreek citizens don’t want our rip raff coming into Creek on the bus; just look at the homies at The Dayton Mall! It’s called having some Class! And probably some racism, too!
Funny though how Bevercreek is so dark at night! If the bus went out there, all our pan handlers would love the free samples of Chinese food now wouldn’t they? Go ahead now and call me bozo again, I don’t mind at all!
Basically I’ll bet, as alluded to already, The Fairfield Commons and the Beavercreek citizens don’t want our rip raff coming into Creek on the bus; just look at the homies at The Dayton Mall!
Yep, I see them get off. They get off near Prestige Plaza, and walk across Springboro Pike to the mall. They even take their kids on strollers to the mall with them. Wow. Can you imagine taking kids on the bus.
Well, yeah, I can, since I was one of those kids, since growing up in Chicago we took the bus all the time to go shopping, either to neighborhood shopping or to the big stores in the Loop (via the L). Corrupted by public transit at an early age, I guess.
I think that the issue with “homies at the the mall” is really one of aesthetics, the way these people look, talk, dress, act. It’s not about actually existing crime brought by transit riders, but a preception that ‘homie= crime’, even if there isn’t any shame in the game of most RTA riders-to-the-mall.
They just want to go shopping, or at least get out of the house, since shopping is a recreational or seeing-people thing as much as it is about actualy buying things.
The reality is- go by any day- and you see the spillover of people smoking and hanging out right around the corner from the RTA pavilion- doing the things they can’t do inside it. This is why the police list the address as place of arrest.
Got it. There is an outdoor smoking patio at the downtown hub for riders who want to smoke, so I can why the people not allowed on the premises hang out on the sidewalk. I’ve noticed this at the hub, see people hanging out more on the Main Street and Jefferson Street sides, more on the Jeff Street side. Also notice more of a police and security presence at times at the Jefferson Street entrance to the RTA station, too, so both DPD and RTA security are watching. Ultimatley it is DPDs responsibility to patrol the sidewalks and streets.
Not sure of these guys are actually riding the bus, becuase if so they are going to be on good behavior. To-date I havnt seen any issues surface while on the bus. I did hear one bus driver warn someone to ‘watch your language!’, and they quited down, so I suspect the drivers are running a tight ship.
Just curious, am I the only poster here who actually rides the bus?
….there can be no question that bus hubs attract dysfunction the way roadkill beckons vultures. Indeed, there are many who attribute the bus hub culture
I admit to being pretty dysfunctional, but not in the criminal way.