DDN Endorsement of Williams and Whaley- complete text

OUR RECOMMENDATION DAYTON CITY COMMISSION

Williams, Whaley easily best for city
This year should be a tough election for incumbents on.the Dayton City Commission. The city keeps shrinking in population, keeps having to make painful budget cuts, has seen record numbers of home foreclosures, loses NCR, shows up near the top of embarrassing lists and faces periodic crime sprees.

In truth, though, Dayton’s government is managing to do more than struggle from crisis to crisis. It has neighborhood  revitalization programs going. It’s managed to maintain a solid bond rating, nothing to be taken for granted these days. It’s on track to do something about all the empty houses resulting from foreclosures.

It has the Tech Town development project on the move. It has won a state designation as an aerospace hub and, with Montgomery County, has a well-conceived project going with Israel that seems likely to bring some new jobs to the region. The city commissioners divvy up jobs among them selves, functioning basically as a Democratic team. Some might see them as too cozy, which is a good and fair point, but at least there’s not a lot of posturing.

One incumbent seeking reelection is Joey Williams. He’s been on the commission or the Dayton School board for the better  part of two decades. As president of Chase Bank for Dayton and Cincinnati, he brings a voice from the business community  to a commission that includes others who are especially tight with labor or come out of neighborhood activism or the party. That mix is good.

Commissioner Williams’ colleagues credit him with helping keep the city on sound fiscal ground. He’s been less successful in his. effort – with Commissioner Dean Lovelace- to find solutions to self-destructive violence among the city’s young people. But give him credit for taking on the toughest of problems.

Commissioner Nan Whaley, seeking her second term, came up through the Democratic Party. She has, among other projects, led the city’s effort toward “land banking,” that is, taking control of abandoned and neglected property with the goal of reusing it someday.

Unfortunately, the state legislature has not passed the legislation that would create a revenue stream for such projects. But the city has demolished hundreds of buildings and is aiming for 1,500 more. Demolition is necessary to prevent these places from becoming eyesores and magnets for crime.

Despite Dayton’s problems, the city commission race hasn’t generated much action. That’s partly because a lot of people  who might put together a strong candidacy have left for the suburbs. Other would be candidates failed to get enough signatures to be on the ballot.

The only challenger to the two incumbents is multi-time candidate David Esrati. He runs a Web site discussing city issues. He has somewhat smoothed the rough edges on his highly abrasive act that has never won him many votes. Still, though, the task of disagreeing agreeably appears to be a painful, difficult stretch for him.

And his ideas are strangely bad. He faults the city commission, for instance, for intruding too much on the domain of the city manager. In fact, however, City Manager Rashad Young had plenty of authority, and used it well. At times in Dayton’s history, the charge might reasonably have been made that elected officials over-intruded on the city manager. Think Mike Turner or Paul Leonard. But neither Mayor Rhine McLin nor any other commissioner is in that mold.

Also, Mr. Esrati, in the good name of regionalism, wants the city to give up its authority to run Dayton International Airport. He points out that the airport’s role is regional. True enough. But he can’t point to any complaints from suburban officials about how it’s run. And the airport is one of the city’s few assets. He wants to fix something that ain’t broke.

Incumbents Joey Williams and Nan Whaley have been steady, responsible voices. They have better judgment about the issues and personalities better suited to governance. They are the best bets for Dayton voters.

[update: 5pm The editorial was finally posted online: http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/opinion/entries/2009/10/08/editorial_williams_whaley_easi.html?cxtype=feedbot After speaking with Ray Marcano, it was agreed that it makes no sense to take it down here. The paper claims it was a tech glitch/ or oversight on their part]
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49 Responses

  1. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 10:13 am
    More people will read this from your blog than will actually read it from the newspaper.
    I would wear it like a badge of honor.
    Ellen Belcher is a tired old bitty and Martin Gotlieb loos like he’s stuffed with sausage and cigarettes.
    I’ve got a bigger audience than those two clowns.

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  2. Larry Evans October 8, 2009 / 11:58 am
    I agree with Dave.  Wear it with pride.  An endorsement from Dayton’s worthless “dumbed-down” paper wouldn’t be worth the fish wrap it’s printed on.

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  3. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 12:50 pm
    Challenge to anyone: Ask 10 people walking the streets of Dayton who Ellen Belcher or Martin Gotlieb is, and be afforded 10 blank stares.
    Neither are particularly special thinkers, or interesting writers.
    They (the old-world mainstream “journalists”) are merely where they are because they are tenured editorialists in a beast that is dieing because they are not capable of making an interesting or useful product. Like the leaders they support, the DDN editorial board is manned by failures. And we all know what they say about the company misery likes to keep.
    They are only there, because they are there.

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  4. Matthew Crowe October 8, 2009 / 1:16 pm
    I thought you would be interested in hearing that, someone put a Nan Whaley sign on my property in the last 24 hours without my permission. I’ve taken it down.
    Also, where is my hand-delivered poster?

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  5. Greg Hunter October 8, 2009 / 1:52 pm
    I find it quite interesting that this “editorial” is not posted electronically on the DDN.  Every other recommendation has been.  I wonder what the reason might be?  I have some ideas, but what do you think?

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  6. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 2:39 pm
    Please do tell. There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to what goes up, what is allowed comment on, etc…

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  7. Hall October 8, 2009 / 3:14 pm
    Regarding comments on DDN stories, they clearly allow comments when they know it will be “fun”. Was anyone surprised when no comments were allowed about the assault at Miami Valley Hospital ? My wife used to work for PHP and no one would believe it, but it is “safer” at Good Sam than at MVH.

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  8. David Esrati October 8, 2009 / 3:21 pm

    @Matt- poster will be delivered- although there was some confusion in your order.

    @the rest of you- the paper has sent a note asking me to take down this content:

    Hi David:
    Thanks for referencing today’s Dayton Daily News editorial on your site (http://esrati.com). I’m glad you find our work to be the kind of information your readers would enjoy.

    However, it is our work. As such, I’m asking you to immediately remove the editorial from your site, since using it in its entirety constitutes a violation of our copyright. We’ve also noticed that you’ve posted the full text of our work in the past. I’m also asking that, in the future, you refrain from using the full text of any work that’s produced by and published in the Dayton Daily News. You’re free to take a very small portion of our work — a line or so — and link to the full text on our site if you wish.

    Please let me know if you have questions. I appreciate your help.
    Ray Marcano
    Internet General Manager
    Cox Ohio Publishing

    They still have not posted it on their site to link to. Any editing by me, may be considered manipulation- so I only felt it fair to post the whole editorial. With comment in the preceding post.

    Considering they are using me as a punching bag to sell their papers, and this site accepts no money, I am standing firm at leaving their unsigned commentary up until they post.

    I refuse to allow them to use my good name to further their political intentions without the ability for the community to see and discuss. Since this is purely political speech, I believe that once they publish it, it has entered the public domain and should be able to be republished at will.

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  9. Gene October 8, 2009 / 3:31 pm
    LAWSUIT!!!!!

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  10. richard burks October 8, 2009 / 3:36 pm
    …Sue the son of a bitches!!

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  11. Brian October 8, 2009 / 3:37 pm
    Help me understand this…. why not just link to their site?  It would seem to be not worth the effort if the only purpose behind what’ you’re doing is simply to do it.  Appears to be counterproductive if  the only reason is just to make a point.  But, that’s just me — always attempting to find a rational  reason for everything. (I’ll have to watch for the next rally you have — curious as to what really drives you. Haven’t yet figured that one out.)
     

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  12. Jennifer Alexander October 8, 2009 / 3:39 pm
    Since the DDN is obviously so interested in keeping tabs on you, your website & “followers”……and clearly bashing you every chance they get, without equal opportunity to you or your supporters…if any further action is taken in regards to you posting this ….I will cancel my subscription.

    I personally feel your having to supply too much needed info to the public…that they have dropped the ball on…the local media use to be the “watch dogs”, they no longer are. Your having to be the “negative” one with doing their dirty work with being the bearer of facts. They should be at every Public Meeting, city, county, elections, school…
     

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  13. richard burks October 8, 2009 / 3:41 pm
    @ Mathew..and you will find another in your yard…multiple door hangers for McLin /Whaley will show up daily. These people are relentless. I was driving up Riverside Monday Evening and saw people taking up Leitzel signs and throwing them in their trunk. I guess that is why here in Kettering no one has touched my Leitzel sign in my front yard.

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  14. David Esrati October 8, 2009 / 4:00 pm

    @Brian- I didn’t link to it- because it isn’t posted. It’s 4pm now. Still no posting. That’s why.

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  15. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 4:02 pm
    David, you are fully within’ fair usage rights.
    The DDN has ZERO legal leg to stand on. If you want to re-type their editorials, and make editorials of your own commenting on their editorials, you are fully allowed to and in violation of ZERO copyright laws.
    I went through these kind of corporate bullying tactics with the Estate of Dale Earnhardt, who tried to stop me from selling photographs of my painting of Dale Earnhardt on the cross at Calvary. Of course, they are only trying to bully, since they know that by law, you are fully within’ your free speech rights to use an object of public discussion (the newspaper), and comment on it.
    And I am fully within’ my rights to take the image and/or persona or a public figure and render it into an editorial statement of my own through whatever medium I see fit (art/music/film).
    Ray Marcano, if you are really the brain behind that request, please get one. Or at least bother to know a little bit about free speech laws.

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  16. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 4:06 pm
    At least, however, we’re starting to find out exactly who the “Dayton Illuminati” are now.

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  17. truddick October 8, 2009 / 4:27 pm
    Drexel Dave is right, according to my understanding of copyright law.  Your copying of their editorial, in whole or in part, constitutes fair use because:

    You are copying it for purposes of criticism and commentary–that’s “fair use” specifically mentioned in copyright law.
    The work is (or normally would be) accessible freely via weblink or other means–which indicates that the copyright holder does not consider it necessary to restrict access–no damages, no grounds for lawsuit.
    You are not profiting directly from the resale or redistribution of the work.  They can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.

    DDN needs to start taking responsibility for its role in dragging Dayton down–attempts to squelch the free flow of information ought to be beneath them.

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  18. Matt October 8, 2009 / 4:33 pm
    And I second what was said about fair use of stories that appear online or in hard copy. It’s not as if David was pretending to take credit for the story. He acknowledged where it came from and the fact that it wasn’t readily accessible online.

    Ironically identical verbage was received by the Urban Ohio forum and other bloggers from a consortium of newspapers who don’t feel like they’re getting enough credit for their reporting. Rather than reposting a story they would like bloggers to  link to their stories…which actually sounds like a reasonable request as long as the original story is actually online!

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  19. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 4:37 pm
    How embarrassing for the DDN.

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  20. Jeff October 8, 2009 / 4:55 pm
    That Urban Ohio thing really messed things up for awhile.  They are complying with the Ohio newspapers’ request, though.
     
     
    I think there was a good article about the DDN in the City Paper or whatever it was called, about how the DDN is “in love with incumbency”.  This is a good example.  That comment about the airport is a good example of how they are clueless about regionalism (aside from their regional circulation figures). Having the airport under a regional authority is how its done in Boston, via MassPort (Massachusets Port Authority) or Louisville (the Air Board).   In the case of Dayton there already is the Montgomery County Port Authority, which could absorb the airport.
     
     
     

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  21. David Esrati October 8, 2009 / 5:14 pm

    Just talked it over with Ray Marcano at the DDN. Put a link to the original on the original post- since it wasn’t available earlier. We agreed to keep the content up here at this point.

    I guess this proves that even being abrasive and having bizarre ideas, I can run a website better on the side than their professionals.

    I can also get votes at a much lower dollar per vote than any of the incumbents, which is a foundation of my idea of how politics should be- not what it is. If that doesn’t make me a “serious candidate” – so be it.

    It’s all about ideas- and I’ve yet to see any big ideas from the Editorial board. Have you?

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  22. Dad October 8, 2009 / 5:27 pm
    They posted the text at 3:21 p.m. It should have been there this morning.

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  23. eddie October 8, 2009 / 6:29 pm
    you’re an idiot. you obviously have no idea how copyrights work. even though the text is delivered through a free digital channel, it is still copyrighted. just like even though over the air TV channels are delivered for free, i can’t record Letterman and put it up on youtube. if you were to sue (as some other morons commented) you would be laughed out of court — and this time they won’t be laughing because you are dressed up as a ninja.
    you are a self absorbed prick who thinks they are God’s gift to man kind (or at least the Dayton area). i find it quite reassuring that Dayton will never be crazy enough to elect a nut bar like you.

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  24. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 6:45 pm
    But you can record Letterman, and put it up with editorial comment. You are totally wrong eddie, because you are making the comparison of what David is doing with someone just copying and strictly passing it along for monetary gain.
    Esrati is beyond legal is what he is doing.
    from:
    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
    § 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40
    Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —
    (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
    (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
    (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
    (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
    The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

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  25. David Esrati October 8, 2009 / 7:21 pm

    @eddie- thanks for the kind words. If you had a spine, you’d sign your whole name.

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  26. eddie October 8, 2009 / 7:40 pm
    ok no. you’re wrong. if you were right, then why does youtube take down videos all the time because of copyright infringement? by simply posting the video i am not receiving any monetary gain yet youtube will take it down.
    but that part about me not having a spine, you are correct

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  27. George October 8, 2009 / 8:14 pm
    readership is down. force the link to the ‘new’ media so more can be charged for web advertising.
    G

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  28. eddie October 8, 2009 / 8:17 pm
    and pwned

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  29. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 8:21 pm
    youtube takes down videos that do not contain any kind of editorial comment in them, after a copyright infringement complaint has been made.
    I cannot just take a copyrighted piece of  any media and reproduce it and distribute it without permission. But it is legal for me to copy and distribute said intellectual property for the use of inclusion in editorializing, satire, parody, etc…
    Read the following key terms in the copyright law:
    for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
    David Esrati is doing nothing illegal, and nobody is going to sue anyone because nobody has anything to sue anybody over.
    It’s still REALLY lame for the newspaper to call for David to pull it down.

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  30. Molly Darcy October 8, 2009 / 9:20 pm
    Wow David, I don’t think you could sound any more bitter in your comment on the DDN blog.  Are you starting to get the clue yet that you’re un-electable?  People don’t like you or your ideas.  Give away the airport?  That could be the most idiotic thing you’ve said (and that’s saying a lot).  Why would you give away one of the true growth engines of the city?  That position alone says you don’t have a clue how to govern in the best interest of the city.  Thank god your pathetic excuse for a campaign is almost over. 

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  31. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 9:29 pm
    At least with Esrati, you’re only voting for potential failure, which is better than proven failure.

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  32. Drexel Dave Sparks October 8, 2009 / 9:36 pm
    What do you have against veterans Marcy?
    I would have been pissed if they left that out too. I put in my time to uncle sam, and think that it’s just plain journalistically irresponsible for them to have left that out.

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  33. Jeff October 8, 2009 / 10:10 pm
    Molly, you are about as clueless as they come.   The airport suggestion was just one part of a larger philosophy of regional authority.  Your pretty typical of the narrow parochial attitudes that have divided this community for way too long.  It’s tragic you and people like you exist.

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  34. Greg Hunter October 9, 2009 / 10:24 am

    People don’t like you or your ideas.

    You mean the people that finance your campaign like landfill managers.  It must be nice that your largest contributor runs a landfill.  Groupthink has been very bad for this City as “we hold these truths to be self evident”  It is unfortunate that the Franklin Daily News sold it self out a long time ago and only pursues ad revenue and not the stupid residue that inhabits every space of the Corporate and Political hierarchy.  As a test market for America, Dayton is the Canary in the Coal Mine, the empire is lost and America has sold itself out to greed.

    Why would you give away one of the true growth engines of the city?

    The Airport, really, come on now.  As a temporary stop gap while Delta shuts down the Cincinnati (Have you been to the C gate lately?) hub sure, but over time?  You are smoking crack.  Dayton’ s airport may in fact increase but not they way it once was when Emery was in residence or when corporations like NCR and Mead were in the hey day.  The age of flight for Americans is coming to an end and the Dayton Airport operations are subsided by the FAA infrastructure money and the Dayton Chamber of Commerce with its worthless Business Center.  Lipstick on a Pig, look in the mirror.  Effing business majors are nothing more than cheerleaders for Business as Usual.   I do not think you understand what growth means?  We put up more pavement and get less people –  is that Growth, no stupidity.
    Mr. Esrati has tried to introduce ideas that would have may a difference or at least should have been discussed in an open forum, because it was easy to see that following the same old prescriptions from DC or Columbus would not work.  Look around is Dayton better off today than yesterday or twenty years ago?

    It’s tragic you and people like you exist.

    I could not have said it better myself :)

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  35. Molly Darcy October 10, 2009 / 10:39 pm
    “The airport suggestion was just one part of a larger philosophy of regional authority. ” 

    Jeff & sidekick Greg– I don’t care what “final solution” the “suggestion” was part of, giving the airport away is a stupid idea.  Period.  And I’m sorry you wish I didn’t exist, but grow up and deal with it–what is this, kindergarten? 

    There is a lot more to the airport than the planes that fly in and out, you do realize right?  Like the hundreds of acres of developable land being released from aviation related uses?  Try one of the largest pieces of shovel ready land in the “region” which also happens to be minutes from I-70/I-75, the airport, and possibly a rail line.  So yeah, let’s give the excellently run airport, with it’s thousands of jobs and hundreds of acres of developable land away to some nonexistent regional government as a token of our joy–like the burbs are really jumping to join back with Dayton when they couldn’t flee fast enough from us over the last 50 years.  Give me a break.  When Oakwood and Centerville are ready to join school systems with poor ole DPS, then come back to your regional government dream.  Ain’t happening people.  And by the way, can I say again what an idiotic idea it is to give away the airport?

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  36. Drexel Dave Sparks October 11, 2009 / 8:44 am
    Molly, what is your opinion on the future of the airline industry in America?

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  37. Jeff October 11, 2009 / 8:53 pm
    [quote]When Oakwood and Centerville are ready to join school systems with poor ole DPS, then come back to your regional government dream. [/quote]

    Once again you demonstrate your ignorance. 

     It’s actually possible to have forms of merged governement without merging school districts.  Case in point is Indianapoilis and metropolitan Portland.

    [quote]So yeah, let’s give the excellently run airport, with it’s thousands of jobs and hundreds of acres of developable land away to some nonexistent regional government as a token of our joy–like the burbs are really jumping to join back with Dayton when they couldn’t flee fast enough from us over the last 50 years.[/quote]

    A bit bitter aren’t we.   Another Dayton fool complaining about the bad old suburbs. 

    The logic here is that the airport management and the property could devolve to the Montgomery County Port Authority, which has already acted in facilitating development around Austin Road.   So there is already a track record of a local entity engagin in sucessfull greenfield property development.

    Tax benefits from this could still accrue to Dayton since the land is annexed to the city.

    [quote]  Give me a break[/quote]

    I will absolutley not give you a break since you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.  Your zero-sum us-and-them  city vs suburb thinking is what stymies this region.  It your case it”s from the city POV.  

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  38. Emily B. October 12, 2009 / 8:57 am
    Is this the kind of bitter and catty exchange we can expect in City Hall after Esrati’s election? I can only hope not, but what I can say is that reading this stuff on a campaign website can really a turn a person off, even if it’s not David participating.

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  39. David Esrati October 12, 2009 / 10:00 am

    @emily- thanks for joining the conversation.

    If you look at the DDN boards- it’s a lot worse. The nature of social media is that if they can’t write about you on your site- they’ll write it somewhere else. You have the best and worst of it here.

    There are some serious hate mongers in this town- like “Molly Darcy” – yet, in the interest of free speech- I allow her to post her rhetoric here.

    I prefer to discuss ideas- and not personalities- however, all of us are human- and sometimes we slip a bit.

    I think you’ll find Jeff (of Daytonology) one of the smarter thinkers on the subject of regionalism- and while you may find his responses catty at times, you can’t fault his logic.

    Right now, you have no discussion on the other candidates sites. Are we that perfect?

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  40. Molly Darcy October 12, 2009 / 9:22 pm
    David/Jeff:
    Again, what is wrong with the airport that you’re trying to fix???  You’re trying to fix a problem that doesn’t exist.  What’s the point of handing over the airport to the Port Authority (a bond writing agency knows what exactly about airports?) and Dayton still keep the tax dollars.  WHAT’S THE POINT????? 

    “It’s actually possible to have forms of merged government without merging school districts.”
    My point exactly–don’t include the schools so the poor kids get left on their own while the burbs get the benefits of  “regionalism”.  Good luck with that. 

    David:  I love the fact that you call me a “hate monger.” This coming from someone who spends his days trashing people online instead of actually campaigning for an election he supposedly wants to win. 

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  41. David Esrati October 13, 2009 / 1:26 pm

    note to “Donald Phillips” and “Roger” – going from one library computer to the next and posting as different people doesn’t work. Your comments will be deleted.

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  42. David Lauri October 13, 2009 / 2:46 pm
    LOL, you think someone would be smart enough to use some different free WiFi access points and also some different browsers.  For example, post using Chrome at Panera and then walk across the street and post using Firefox at Starbucks.

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  43. Jeff October 13, 2009 / 10:25 pm
    Again, what is wrong with the airport that you’re trying to fix???  You’re trying to fix a problem that doesn’t exist.  What’s the point of handing over the airport to the Port Authority (a bond writing agency knows what exactly about airports?) and Dayton still keep the tax dollars.  WHAT’S THE POINT?????
     
    The point of Dayton keeping revenue coming from development adjacent to the airport should be self-evident.  I use the Port Authority as an example since the local one was, according to news reports in the DDN and DBJ, involved in land development at Austin Road.  Port Authorities elsewhere also operate airports and transit systems, as well as ports.  This is just one example of a regional authority.
     
    A further point is that this is an incremental approach to regionalism, with various functions being merged over time.  This is how Louisville eventually moved to its form of metro government or how  the Portland metropolitan government evolved. In this case devolving the airport to a regional authority would be a somewhat painless (as in non-controversial) first step.   This is just my opinion and I don’t presume to speak for Esrati on this.
    “It’s actually possible to have forms of merged government without merging school districts.”
    My point exactly–don’t include the schools so the poor kids get left on their own while the burbs get the benefits of  “regionalism”.  Good luck with that.

     
     
    Actually alot of suburbanites agree with you about school mergers and regionalism in general.  I think you using this as one example and making it the deal-breaker for the concept, the same way you are using the airport.
    If you oppose the entire concept of regionalism and think the status quo is fine you have quite a bit of company out here in suburbia.   If this is the case you should state this as a fundamental policy disagreement  with Esrati (and why you oppose it)  instead of making him out to be fool with your caustic and dismissive remarks.
     

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  44. David Esrati October 22, 2009 / 8:14 am

    Just found this in the archives- where Martin Gottlieb called me “bright”

    http://esrati.com/?p=674

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  45. David Lauri October 22, 2009 / 8:59 pm
    LOL, of course you put no value in Gottlieb’s having called you “bright,” do you?

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  46. David Esrati December 13, 2010 / 3:51 pm

    and now we don’t have an airport director, or an acting director- and the deputy city manager is going to jump in and take a shot.

    Seems like a headache Dayton City Hall doesn’t need: http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2010/12/13/interim-airport-director-takes-job-in.html?ed=2010-12-13&s=article_du&ana=e_du_pub

    Note- Tim Riordan was banished to the airport before he left Dayton- way back. He’d be competent to take over operations- but, then who would run the City? Stan?

    Our bench in city hall isn’t deep. That’s a real problem.

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