Is America becoming a third world country?
I was in Chicago yesterday. Second largest public transit system in the country- and the Blue Line to O’Hare was running at 17mph!
The bridge in Minneapolis collapses during rush hour.
Foreclosures on homes in record numbers.
All while we are “fighting a war on terror” costing hundreds of billions.
This country was made with rail power- now we can barely keep Amtrack running- while the rest of the world is going 200+ mph (oh yeah, don’t get me started on the fact that we’re the only idiots in the world NOT using the metric system).
Kids aren’t graduating from our lame public education system- with a 180 day school year, we don’t have universal medical coverage, we’re building a trade deficit with China that if allowed to continue, we’ll all be learning Mandarin.
In the meantime- our political system is totally bought, sold and paid for by special interests- and we’re more worried about what time strip clubs close than about how to equally and fairly fund our schools in Ohio.
This isn’t a Democrat or Republican thing anymore- I can’t even blame George Bush for it anymore. At some point we have to readjust our ego as Americans and realize that we’re still leveraging previous generations’ accomplishments for a false sense of bravado.
Being an American isn’t about becoming a millionaire by leveraging stock options, or “right-sizing” jobs out of America. Yes, this is still a land of opportunity- but increasingly, the playing field is being warped by our loss of touch with premises set out by our founding fathers, remember the line that went:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
If you go and read the Declaration of Independence, you might wonder if we’ve forgotten about what it means to have a common, unified appreciation for what Americans used to be made of.
Somehow, someway, we have to find our way back to our roots. We have to restore the pride- and cultivate a new generation that isn’t inspired by rock star athletes, politicians, CEOs, musicians and start appreciating the common denominator of a country that believed in the golden rule- and individual rights.
As I rode the slow train to O’Hare, all I could keep thinking was Mussolini sold himself to the Italians as the man who could make the trains run on time. If we’re not careful about how we continue- we may be headed in the same direction.
I think we are soul mates :)
The CTA is in indeed in poor shape, but that is a local problem. This is due to funding issues with Chicagolands regional transit system Metra/RTA, and involves state government to some degree.
“As I rode the slow train to O’Hare”
… as opposed to the bullet train back to Dayton in under 3 hours….
The good old USA has some good things, and the things you mention don’t put us on par with a third world nation. I was recently in the Americas in the middle, aka central, as well as MEXICO and we have it realllllllllllllllllllllllll nice. The train thing – Big oil doesnt want it so we won’t see it, even though we need it – metric system over rated, our schools do stink, millionaire is what I hope to be so I can donate my money to college kids drinking funds, our political system has always been bought and paid for, how do you think we get all the great shit, well, minus bridges. There are flaws, and most of you who support uni-healthcare (as I do) must understand that many countries are still charging for extra insurance and it can be lacking in terms of the actual “care” part. There is a way, I not sure what it is, but hey Dave, you have to have a solution. Spell it out for us. I really don’t think we are that bad off, but I agree our priorities are pointed in the wrong direction. I just hope my place and my stuff (I really don’t have a lot) are protected and that I can pop a cold one every now and again, otherwise the “treading water” complex of Dayton, OHIO, and The good old USA shall continue.
Gene sometimes I like your posts and yes we are sitting pretty, but we have, and are wasting a great deal of money on things that we should not. I expect America to buy and build quality products and the government should care for the needs of the many and not the pocket books of the few. America is just as corrupt as Mexico, but we pay lawyers to prove it is lawful.
Here is voting advice, vote for the person that you do not know.
I totally agree that The USA is sinking into something, which might be close to 3rd world status. I have lived abroad for 4 years and every year I have come for a visit I have seen very little progress with things that the Europeans had figured out and implemented nearly 20 years ago. My husband, who is from Scandinavia, has come to live in The USA and is amazed and the backwardness and inefficiencies, terrible infrastructure, poverty & lack of education, and just plain ignorance and intolerance.
He cannot believe that we live in a system that does not make sure each elderly has paid medications, give the opportunity for parents to freely educate their children on a higher level, or allow us to simply rely on public transport alternatively as a more environmental and economical way to commute.
In the 4 years I have gone, I have seen an increase in the amount of time people spend with their work. There is less time for family and more stress, road rage, traffic, trash, long lines, and those ‘shady neighborhoods’ that we just can’t even enter if we want to be safe.
I used to be a hardcore American patriot, but after living in Europe for some time I had to wonder and assess my whole thinking, going beyond just this superficial layer of Americanism. There are a lot of great things in The USA; the nature, the people, the diversity, the opportunities…but the things to preserve and keep these things alive and thriving that matter so much are diminishing more and more. It truly saddens me, and makes me ashamed to see my husband struggle with things he has never had to even think about in his whole life. He has traveled a lot to all kinds of places and he says that for sure it has that 3rd world country flair.
I have connections to Germany and visited there a number of times, once when a kid spent a whole summer there. Always stayting with granparents or relatives, so I got to see how the Germans lived at home.
Germany, like Scandinavia, is a social-democratic welfare state. So I was impressed with that way of organizing a society. Based on my experience there that became my preferred political system or form of political economy.
It will never happen here, so it has no impact on my politics, but I can see there are better ways of doing things.
America is moving more to a South American style system….maybe more like Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay (not really third world). Maybe not completly, but we are getting closer to them than to places like Canada and Australia and Europe.
Nothing makes me more depressed than to read about America in recent times. America SHOULD be the greatest country on the planet to live in, but it isn’t. Your average wage is 21% lower than the UK and your average outgoings are 8% higher, this is made worse by the simple fact that in the UK people work less hours than you. So in reality you are working and earning probably 50% less than people in the UK. China is deliberating over whether or not to get rid of its dollar holdings in exchange for Euros – these amount to 1.76 trillion dollars, if China does this the US dollar would simply hit the fan, you could suffer a depression comparible to what was seen in the 1930s. On the positive side. The USA could close its doors to the whole of the rest of the world tomorrow, give everyone the finger and just go back to producing everything themselves, it has massive resources, oil, coal, steel, just about every mineral known to man. The USA doesn’t need anyone else, nor any other countries money! There are four things though that would make America great once again and I’ll list them. 1. Free universal health care (no one in a civilised country should have to pay for their health care) 2. Reduced working hours and higher minimum wage. The rest of the world laughs at the stupid hours Americans work. Whilst the rest of the world work to live, you lot live to work.. it just isn’t right in the 21st Century, in the UK the only people who work more than 40 hours per week are either desperate or extremely well off, no inbetween. 3. Free higher education for all. Yep, just like europe does (sort of). The most important commodity in any country is its people. The country MUST invest in its most valuable commodity! Good education should not be the reserve of the wealthy, it is a right of everyone who lives in a country to receive the best education possible. After all most of us are… Read more »
Andy-
We have to work extra hard to afford all of our cars- and a totally non-existent mass-transit system. Remember- Exxon has to have record profits every quarter.
The problem for the Chinese to dump their dollars- is that all their exports come here.
It would be very short sighted to destroy the major market for your goods. They aren’t stupid- they look long- I’d say they are waiting for the real estate market to hit bottom- then buy the country at firesale prices.
Unfortunately- as long as we have the best politicians money can buy thanks to our corrupt systems of electing (or appointing as we did with GWB)- we’ll never see change until the gap forces a new revolution.
We’re just like alcoholics- we have to hit rock bottom before we try to heal ourselves- and we’re not there yet.
Thanks for the comment.
Cheerio!
I agree with you Andy. I have lived in Europe for the past 4 years and returned to the sad realities of my home country of The USA. The shocking thing is that many people I have met here are just too proud to confess that the country needs a change. If ever I speak up about the fact that everyone should receive free education, many don’t even know the value of one if they got it. ‘What would I need that for’?, is a general response. Also, I am wondering whatever happened to just a 40 hour week? People are working 10 hours a day or more, plus weekends and holidays. The whole emphasis here is on work and being so busy out of your mind you have no time to even fart; if you aren’t there is something wrong with you. Also, people seem to just hang around at work longer…even after their hours of working are done. They just stick around as if they are dreading the thought of going home at all. Another sad reality is that there is even more of the hard selling, deceptive advertising and hidden charges. I was very upset to find even people in the medical field (dentists, doctors) trying to hard sell me their services. One dentist wanted almost a hundred dollars up front just to sit and talk about my teeth (beware of the word consultation). Everyone is overworked, overstressed, and still hard up for any little bit of cash it makes me sick. I tried to get a job recently but quit once the boss wanted me to stay after hours and on weekends on a salary-based pay!! I told him that my family, personal time, health & sanity are more valuable than any job. I won’t give up until I find my own happy medium here, which might take some time. I just wish people would not settle for something less than they deserve. It frustrates me to see parents working 10 hour days instead of using those extra hours to spend with their kids. They just… Read more »
Americans do work too much……. often they are “AT” work, but not really working, rather talking to co-workers about long hours, their weekend, etc. The point is that Americans DONT have to be at work that long, could work more from home, and if they had a decent management structure at work they could take off an hour here, and hour there so long as the real work is done. David works a lot, but he can take his time off as he wants, right?
Life is tooooo short……. work for yourself and at least if you need a nap you can get it, otherwise you will work a lot but have time for that fart.
Take a long hard look at pre1960s America. Yes, there were hard times…..wars depression…….but through it all Americans became stronger, resiliant, & acheived the greatest standing of all countries in the world. We were superpowers in education, engineering, science, medicine, archtecture & invention. What changed after the 1960s that caused the gradual decline of American cities, schools, business, and a safe way of life? In order to be a great country you must have like minded individuals with like minded goals. Similar people think similarly. The countries that have a better way of life today are countries that are not burdened with social identity or extreme differences from within. They think alike, therfore move forward. DIVERSITY is the answer to pre 1960s question. DIVERSITY is a lie. Open your history books & take a look at pre 1960s Detroit, Los Angelas, New Orleans, & St. Louis to name a few. There has always been crime, but nothing on the scale of what DIVERSITY has brought to us. More crime, means more prisons, that means more taxes. Not to mention policing & neighborhood rebuilding. Schools? Hmmm….massive bussing, extra gas, more bus drivers, more time travel for kids, more taxes to cover these costs in the name of DIVERSITY has yeilded NO RESULTS. The blacks kids are just as dumb as ever. Before you start calling me racist names -answer this? If there was massive Black & Hispanic people overtaking of your neighborhood would you stay? Would you send your kids to that gang ridden school? Living in that high crime violence heighborhood? No, you would jump on the white flight bandwagon, all the while saying DIVERSITY is good…..As you move to your new lily whte neighborhhod with new schools, or private schools. What has toppled many of the greatest countries throughout history like Rome & Greece? DIVERSITY. Business? Let me see- I can hire the most qualified people or I can hire SOME qualified people & be burdened with LAWS that require me to hire less qualified people because of DIVERSITY. Will my company be better? No. Every aspect of American… Read more »
Dr. Phil is welcome to his opinions-
but, why must he hide behind a pen name?
It just proves why Dayton needs a law to enforce equal protection from bigots like “Dr. Phil”
Except their oil as Mexico alone provides America with 10% of daily gluttony. How about we leave the brown people alone first and try live without their oil. I like to see how that “would work out for ya” Dr. Phil
Actually, “Dr. Phil” has kind of a point in the beginning of his diatribe (although I certainly do not agree with any of the “leave the white folks alone” rhetoric!!).
Back in the “old days” when people immigrated to America, it was to become Americans. They struggled to learn English and to assimilate. True, they kept some of their old world customs which often became part of the greater American culture. Today it seems as though the immigrants are coming here and not even trying to assimilate into the country. Advocates for these people then insist that special tutors come into the classroom and teach these kids in their own languages (many California schools teach in over 40 languages and dialects). This hampers the kids success and inhibits their ability to truly become American. This is in stark contrast to the mid-50’s when my aunt came here from Germany, not speaking a word of English. She and her twin sister were enrolled in the public schools and expected to learn English and become American. And they did it with pride.
There are too many people out there today that come to this country to leach off of her instead of contributing to her.
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation of all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.” Teddy Roosevelt.
^
I disagree. What makes places like Chicago and San Francisco so interesting is the hyphenation, the diversity.
There are a number of pathologies and social ails that afflict the populace of America. We have been made to believe that racism is bad or wrong, no matter what. This is the moral compass by which we measure the worth of a human being. Now you can delude yourself in believing that everyone group is equal, while you simultaneously justifying your fleeing to the white areas of the globe, and you can tell yourself Dr. Phil is an idiot, which he is, but it will not change the reality of the lies that have been told to America for the last 50 years. The West will soon be at the mercy of the absolutists and the criminals of the world. The collapse of the United States is written in the stars. Within your lifetime the effects of these race egalitarian counter-culture ideologies(which have many strong philosophical components) will be felt throughout the white areas of the world, and whites will either fight and then consolidate their lands, or they will perish from the earth. Make no mistake, however, ladies and gentlemen, the generation before me will be responsible for the terrible consequences of these tremendous race denial lies, even if they never reap what they have sown. Now diversity of thought can have its values as Dr. Phil is reluctant to point out, but mostly when it is in use to refine, as a calculated departure from opinion towards truth, and not when it is espousing the equivalence of all ideology or all people. You can not value a meter and throw away the meter stick. The United States abandoned reason for sentiment, and we are now just waking up to the disgusting world we created. And what was most directly responsible for all of this? So, though a panoply of factors were at work, the most responsibility falls on the shoulders of these free-thinking race egalitarian liberals and their dark followers(pardon the pun) who have destroyed not only the future of all Americans but who soon will have brought down the economy as well. So, attention all people… Read more »
Despite what they have told you, to deny the probability of it occurring, that is what is immoral.
It would be comical to ignore race (yes, it exists) issues when discussing America’s rapid descent into third world status, although race problems are really just a small symptom of a larger and more fundamental socio-culturo-politico-economico-etcetera-o ailment that has been slowly manifesting itself in the West for quite some time now. Is it any coincidence that all third world nations consist primarily of the same racial populations that do so poorly in first world nations, where they are even given preferential treatment by their supposedly racist and exploitative host populations? Am I evil for noticing this? Lol. However, it is just as comical to blame, for instance, Mexicans for fleeing their own dysfunctional country to come here. They come because the West, and America especially, has fallen victim to the self-destructive slave morality that was first introduced in the form of Christianity thousands of years ago. “Blessed are the meek, the poor, the hungry, the thoughtless, the passive, the sick, the incompetent, those with poor grammar, etc. Only the powerful, the capable, the happy, the self-sufficient, are evil.” Is this Marx or Jesus speaking? I tend to get them confused myself. Have the rabble yet inherited the earth? Just about. Are you happy now? Didn’t think so. Modern secular egalitarianism is really just the same dogmatic, jealous and bigoted hatred of the sane, strong, healthy and capable that was the real root of much of Christian “morality.” Race is only a small issue when compared to the monumental threat that “tolerance,” “equality,” and “open-mindedness” pose to any society that takes such childish concepts seriously. Big macs and ding-dongs are not equal to healthy, natural, tasty food. Britney, eminem, and fifty-cent are not equal to Beethoven, Bach, and Brahms. “Married with children,” “Sex and the City,” and and “Friends” are not equal to the writings of Shakespeare, Nietzsche, Confucious or Goethe. Men and women have different temperaments, bodies, reproductive roles, interests, abilities, etc. Smoking crack while watching T.V. is not equal to composing a symphony that will inspire others for ages to come. War for Israel, globalism and neocons is not… Read more »
Is this thing on?
I like the subtle connection you have drawn between the “slave morality” or multi-culturalism / modern secular egalitarianism and christianity— Quite enlightening really. I would, however, not say that race is but a small factor in this equation. Long live Nietzsche, Confucius, Shakespeare and, of course, Beethoven, and may all men with such refined tastes, such as yourself, always have a rightful and safe place to reside on this ideologically diseased planet. I fear you may have to fight for this—and how I wish it were not so.
Thanks for complimenting my tastes, but I don’t know how much credit I can take for noticing that Beethoven is musically superior to 50 cent, etc. In a healthy society, this would be taken for granted, but we are not living in a healthy society, as you have pointed out. As you said above, “Now diversity of thought can have its values as Dr. Phil is reluctant to point out, but mostly when it is in use to refine, as a calculated departure from opinion towards truth, and not when it is espousing the equivalence of all ideology or all people. You can not value a meter and throw away the meter stick.” Well said. Most people seem to think that aristocratic societies of the past were entirely free from intelligent debate on all issues, when in reality they were free from the incessant, dogmatic and hostile babble of partisan idiots who are not much interested in the truth or falsity of their claims, but merely repeat what they hear on T.V. or whatever suits their fragile emotional needs. Compare America’s earliest political debates to her latest televised travesties, brought to you by Tampax tm. In America, “everyone has a right to their opinion,” really means that intelligent, knowledgable people do not have a right to speak the truth, because someone may be offended by it. Your opinion does not matter because it is cancelled out by the differing opinions of a thousand morons with no knowledge of the subject being discussed. This is the “freedom” brought to us by equality. It is a shame that, for instance, Beethoven’s music has yet to be bested by another’s, despite ample time for this to happen. But really, what can we expect in a society where the capable must expend all of their time and energy in efforts to shield themselves from the societal damage inflicted by idiots run amok. If Beethoven or Nietszche were alive today, they would probably be too busy with society’s endless stream of irrelevant but unavoidable nonsense to ever fulfill their real potential. Although Nietzsche would probably… Read more »
John – How’s life? Come off the high brow selections, while excellent choices – history is long and you have 4 white entertainers and then you compare them to 50 (he ain’t worth a quarter) cent? Somewhat of a straw man argument for “a transexual black midget lesbian.” Post some video of your action for us morons.
I think you are missing my point, Greg. Indeed, there are better musicians than 50-cent alive and kicking in America, but none that I know of have demonstrated a more complete mastery of counterpoint than Bach, or created a more inspiring and impressive set of works than Beethoven composed, even while deaf. Why does Britney Spear’s music sell in record numbers, while classical music is so often considered irrelevant and “elitist” in the modern, derogatory sense of the term. I think this suggests a general decline in standards, as well as a decline in ability. As for my “4 white entertainers,” they are not “mine”, Confucious is not white, and none of these men would have considered themselves “entertainers.” Perhaps you assume I am trying to associate myself with history’s greats in order to create an air of superiority, in which case you can rest at ease, as I am not that interested in what anonymous internet dwellers think or don’t think of me. If you read my entire post you would see that I was discussing America’s decline into a third world country, the topic of this thread. When a culture no longer produces high quality art, achetecture, philosophy, etc., you can be sure that other symtoms of decline are sure to follow, if they are not already present. Even the most deluded egalitarian must admit that American pop culture stinks to high heaven. But hey, everthing is relative, right? You might object, saying that you prefer this or that modern musician to Bach, but I doubt this or that musician would be capable of producing, under the objective standards of counterpoint, such high quality compositions, much less as prolifically as he did. I could not, I assure you. Even if I had the talent, I would be too busy trying to get by in a society that is generally hostile to everything but grovelling mediocrity. When everything is evauluated in terms of immediate economic gain or loss, there is no place for real culture, although there will be plenty of entertainment to prevent most people from realizing that… Read more »
Your point about aristocratic society is well noted, however, an aristocratic society crumbles when all people and all groups demand equal say and influence. The political movements of the 20th century are all directly related to this outcome. When everybody enters, everybody demands equality, without first realizing that they are not evaluating equality on a societal scale, but rather are demanding it on a personal one. This is the first step on the path of devolution. When every group demands equal rights, then equal income, then equal status, and finally their own full blown version of egalitarianism, where these very self-interested and self-determining ideologies dictate the path society travels, without regard to the path it should travel, then you end up with America. You see, the Jews, the blacks, and really all “minority” groups operate in a self-defining and self-sustaining manner and they do so under the veil of legitimacy, because those in academia and those in power have deemed all whites to be evil if they congregate, whereas all other groups do so without their motives being questioned. ‘Tis but another double standard. So, by working to define morality with their new found power bestowed upon them by anti-absolute and superindividualistic westernness, morality seeks to serve the interests of these groups. Similarly, the postmodern era feeds the foundations of this ideology’s foothold on society by overcoming itself, without also expecting all other groups or societies to do so. So it appears to be superiority which has killed us, not inferiority. Though I can only wonder, if it kills something bad for a small good which integrates with the present to forge a future worse, does the overall good override the overall bad(calculated at an selected instantaneous moment in the future when the effects of such action are worn off, though they never are, so we should say compounded to infinity)? The answer is, probably not, though it is difficult to see as the best disguised poisons kill slowly and discreetly and the greatest goods play out in the far future. So, how smart is the western world? Smart enough… Read more »
I think we are on the same page and I will read your response in more detail, but I get the sense that you lionize the past, while in reality their were just as many morons back in the day; however, the sophisticated, rich helped classical music become the Pop music of the day. I would also contend that “some” rap music shows a distinct talent to use sophisticated references to cultural and musical icons that seem to transcend the people that make it popular.
“I get the sense that you lionize the past, while in reality their were just as many morons back in the day” It is true that there have always been morons, but decadent societies like our own tend to handle morons in an extremely counterproductive way, simultaneously cultivating and exploiting stupidity for personal financial profit and giving stupid people large amounts of unaccountable power and influence. George Bush would have probably been harmlessly picking potatoes or shoveling dung in any good aristocratic society of the past. Populist ideologues are generally too reluctant to blame the ever-innocent electorate for electing a long line of miserable failures to office; they never question the value of the electorate’s opinion in general! George Bush is in many ways truly representative of the American populace, as difficult as that is for any non-misanthrope to admit. Power to the people!??? There must be a better way. Do I lionize the past? Well, I try not to, but perhaps I am merely advocating a lesser of several evils, in a certain sense. I am not a big believer in utopias, past, present, or future. Nor do I view the world through the confused, dogmatic and dishonest spectacles of what is called “morality,” whether that of secular humanism or religious belief. Most of humanity’s problems would be best analyzed coolly and objectively, as if through the eyes of an alien anthropologist from the planet Zordoc or something. Moralistic manipulators, “leftist” or “rightist” or whateverist often have very different motives than their rhetoric would suggest, and America is largely in the hands of such manipulators and their followers. Rather than measure a society by its adherence to arbitrary rules of conduct invented by utopian dreamers, we should look at the observable real world results of a given arrangement (ignoring false rhetoric claiming non-existent results). Using this method, the U$A falls short in many ways, all while advertizing itself as the model to which all who are not evil, despotic or insane must conform. We talk about our legendary freedoms, but the U.S. has one of the most convoluted, arbitrary,… Read more »
correction: “picking potatoes” I’m not sure if this is possible.
“I would also contend that some rap music shows a distinct talent to use sophisticated references to cultural and musical icons that seem to transcend the people that make it popular.”
I’m not sure if we are supposed to be posting links, so go to youtube and type “read a book mos def” for a rap song with animation (parody) that samples a Beethoven sonata and offers some useful advice, although some may find it offensive. Contains some profanity.
In response to your last post, John(if that is your name… haha), I’m going to use your genius against you because I dearly admire some of your off-hand seeming aphorisms and I just must take the opportunity to use one: It is typical of those who want to ignore reality to latch on to rare exceptions, ambiguities, sentimentalism, and semantic trickery, but general trends, whether cultural, racial, economic, etc. are hard to ignore.
I understand the vitiated and wilted nature of humanity as well as anyone, but I can not concede that the leaps and bounds of science in information and nutrition that have led to such things as the Flynn effect would have been received by all groups equally. That is to say, I can’t help but suspect that a massive dysgenic trend in the United States has starved our potential in our greatest hour. Resources have been squandered inappropriately without regard for a more holistic approach to the problems that face humanity. Diversity has everything to do with humanity’s condition today. I may overestimate the state of affairs and the quality of men in the past, but i charge that you underestimate what could have been the realities of the present without such crippling ideologies and trends.
And yes, our greed infested society is nauseating and infectious to progressive societies. We were once taught that the talented and intelligent rise to the top and prosper. Welcome to America, 2008, and to believe that you must be either a blind conservative, a delusional liberal, or a common American.
Or like most people on this site, probably need a little bit of all three.
“I can’t help but suspect that a massive dysgenic trend in the United States has starved our potential in our greatest hour… Diversity has everything to do with humanity’s condition today… I charge that you underestimate what could have been the realities of the present without such crippling ideologies and trends.” I rarely quote the Bible, but “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” Simple enough, right? Diversity has its place in every natural ecosystem, but the diversity advocated by hippies and politicians has little to do with evolved diversity of function in nature. Even in a racially homogenous society, common values, common goals, etc. are absolutely necessary if anything is to be accomplished besides endless bickering and ego gratification. Imagine a society where all energies were unified and directed towards common goals, rather than chaotically canceling each other out. If common goals cannot be agreed upon and pursued, there is no real organic basis for a healthy society to build upon, and separation into relatively unified groups is the only sane option. Better small and coherent than large and divided. Why base a society on compromise, a situation where all societal functions are rendered meaningless and self-referential, because they have no overarching purpose? The current diverse population of the U.S. will never be able to agree on anything meaningful, and therefore the potential that many people have will be wasted on the irrelevant. Remember those kids in school who always complained about everyone separating into little cliques. “Why can’t we all just be one big group of friends?” Because people with nothing in common will not be able to work together on anything, or even decide what to work towards. I say let the Trekies hang out with the Trekies, the cheerleaders with the cheerleaders, jocks with jocks, and so forth. Don’t make the jocks play dungeons and dragons with the Trekies. It just doesn’t work out well for anyone. When diversity is enforced, people revert to passivity and least-common-denominator activities like television, excessive boozing, eating junk food, playing the stock market, etc. Those who profit from such consumption… Read more »
Well, your point about excessive self-interest is valuable and accurate with regards to the situation in contemporary America, but what I was talking about was the acceleration of intelligence in the United States, accelerating at a slower rate than it might have because of the dysgenic trends occurring— i.e. the lower amount of starting potential or birth g. Dysgenics is certainly a product of lack of direction and division but essentially it’s the general trend that people with below average intelligence are outbreeding people with above average intelligence, and being supported by a system which demands no accountability, for the interest of posterity. This system basically ensures societal dysgenics.(Not to mention medicine, which is also genetically debilitating, without the capability to treat ailments for successive generations) As for your statement about common goals and reason backed standards, I agree on some level, but I am, however, not convinced that eugenics and future genetic engineering technologies will not be capable of fusing together the different qualities of various different groups to maximize human capabilities, and eventually cohesion. That is, I’m not ready to accept that people of different “races” are not capable of establishing or maintaining progressive societies, even today to some extent, so long as the gap between these groups is not inordinate, and direction is embedded. So yes, direction is necessary, but as more of an unspoken, underlying ideology that guides more than any personal or or self-interested endeavor. So what is the point of my rant? The destruction of American society is a byproduct of departure from truth, not morality, or direction. We have and still are unable to accept the differences between races to accept them and treat them through societal engineering, and instead, we justify them with loads of misled research and philosophy, ignoring the importance of truth. That is the state of the commercial age. We live under the reign of vacuous sentimentalities, catch phrases, and forced egalitarianism, despite the reality of the present situation. Any point, no matter how unsupported is equivalent to all other points, no matter how supported. Self-interested groups and self-identifying… Read more »
I guess that depends on what you consider is an accomplishment! Becoming Beethoven great for some people; three squares and some love for others. What is the definition of accomplishment?
Everybody is just trying to be happy; sometimes at others expense, which is rationalized away, but we are unified and directed. I will admit that we need to direct society in a manner that stabilizes the pillage of the earth, but other than that live and let live. I assume that you will take that as a Hippy statement, but man to live in the Ivory Tower, without some compassion for those with less talents is heartless and frankly Germanic. :)
The human race does not really want equality – just enough of the appearance of equality to soothe one’s conscience. The human race relentlessly pursues an imbalance that favors one group over another. It is who we are.
We lack the ability for true equality – and Americans, more so. Every human finds a reason to look down on a group they find disagreement with. We do not want equality. We want the chance to be better than someone else. That is the American Dream.
There are many humorous things in the world: among them the white man’s notion that he is less savage than the other savages.
– Mark Twain, “Following the Equator”
“I am, however, not convinced that eugenics and future genetic engineering technologies will not be capable of fusing together the different qualities of various different groups to maximize human capabilities, and eventually cohesion. That is, I’m not ready to accept that people of different “races” are not capable of establishing or maintaining progressive societies, even today to some extent, so long as the gap between these groups is not inordinate, and direction is embedded.” Unless you accidentally used a double negative (one too many “not”s), I take it you are saying different races or groups can exist productively within the same society, so long as differences are openly acknowledged, value judgments about differences are not taboo, and common direction allows them to work and breed towards non-conflicting goals? I have toyed with similar ideas myself, although I have mixed feelings about it. It is true that all races are the product of a certain amount of historical admixture, although never on the scale that is being advocated today, and never under such dysgenic circumstances as only modern society allows. Evolutionary psychology teaches us that different “tribal” groups, when competing for limited resources and status within the same society, will tend to develop strategies, open or concealed, for resource domination, thus resulting in conflict and an inability to have common goals. Truth is often one of the first casualties in this conflict. Many of the egalitarian ideologies developed in the 20th century can be viewed as products of such aforementioned conflicts, not as products of a “will to truth.” Most of these ideologies, such as radical feminism, Marxism, Freudian psychology, Boasian anthropology, in fact, nearly the whole of leftism in general (even neo-conservatism), were initially developed and propagated by Jewish intellectuals with Jewish identities, although the ideologies themselves are advertised as universalistic and unrelated to specifically Jewish or minority interests. This has resulted in an unprecedented shift of resources and status away from the once dominant European majority, in favor of Jews especially, although other “minority” groups have benefited from the shift in ideology, accepted morality and public policy. It is… Read more »
“I guess that depends on what you consider is an accomplishment! Becoming Beethoven great for some people; three squares and some love for others. What is the definition of accomplishment?” We could quibble over definitions, but no matter how broadly we define “accomplishment,” it should be clear that some accomplishments are more impressive and fruitful than others. Would you like to live in a society where the most impressive accomplishment is putting food on the table? Show me a country that regularly produces Beethovens and Da Vincis, and I’ll bet they have no problems putting food on the table. In fact, the cuisine will probably be delectable and nutritious. :) “but man to live in the Ivory Tower, without some compassion for those with less talents is heartless and frankly Germanic.” Do you have a dislike for Germans? You are probably watching The History Channel (also known as “The Hitler Channel”) too much.:) Despite popular beliefs to the contrary, I think it is actually more difficult for those with fewer talents to empathize with their superiors than visa versa. Why is it that the chubby, homely girl always secretly despises the captain of the cheerleading squad, even if she is treated well by her? Jealousy, along with an impotent inability to change the situation often creates a hatred and desire for revenge and dominance that most well-constituted people wouldn’t even understand. Exceptionally intelligent people often have to purposely hide or at least subdue their intelligence when dealing with dullards, so as to avoid undesired attention, hurt feelings, starting pointless conflicts, and arousing hatred. With rare exceptions, and especially in work and family situations, intelligent people are almost forced to lead a double-life. Of course, there are also intelligent jerks, but I think those are the minority, because it is more difficult to notice smart people who are overly modest. In many ways, stupidity and insensitivity can be conducive to happiness, especially in society that glorifies mediocrity and apish behavior. So I wouldn’t worry too much about the tards; they are probably enjoying themselves more than enough already. “Happiness in intelligent… Read more »
I suppose we all have primary causes of why we have evolved to our current state; one that allows “supposed” weaker genetics to continue to proliferate. I cannot argue the fine points of the arguments presented by John and Anthony, I can say that in my own experience I have not worried about whether the human race will produce superior intellects that propel us forward. It is by chance that these individuals are produced and they have a tendency to be produced from humble (middle class) atmospheres. These “greats” have not sired on greats, per say, although I will not rule out that some degree of intelligence is inherited, the greats have come up by chance, and then, by chance again, born into a setting that nurtured the greatness. I would contend that Society’s standards for public education and funding has weakened over the years, limiting the chance for potential greats to arise from meager circumstances. I was born a poor white boy to modest parents, whose parents parents never got a chance to go to school and I feel I am intelligent. I also empathize with the argument that mediocre Rich have an inordinate influence over society as their off spring are placed in positions beyond their capabilities. I understand the frustration with mediocrity in thought as well as appreciation for the craftsmen that produce fine, long lived products. The human should strive for the finest use of talents, but not so much that they do not love the humanity that shines in all, even the most untalented. I have also come to recognize that some people are suppose to work and some are suppose to make work enjoyable, so yes, like the farmer, the disproportionate few are carrying the rest of us around. Now, how do societies provide enough structure to produce people that are propelling society “forward”? Farming?. I would contend that farming’s enemy is the hunter gatherer society which from an “evolutionary argument”, is further advanced in the European sphere than the other societies around the world. This “advancement” makes us the judge of whether societies… Read more »
The archaeologists and anthropologists and the vast majority of the intelligentsia in universities around the country swamped by neo-liberals and neo-liberal propaganda and PC, superior to the right-wing, but inferior to great minds, suffer from wanton short sightedness. To call the industrial revolution or the agricultural revolution a step backwards is an argument that borders on the brink of insanity. It is similar to calling medicine or any scientific endeavor a step backwards. The step backwards is the unitary, and not holistic practice and implementation of this knowledge— not the knowledge or skill itself! These people are so incredibly ignorant, that they earnestly believe that the primitive people they study have better lives than people in the west do. They offer as their argument, the spiritual and intellectual struggles of the west, and the fact that indigenous groups do not want to join modern society. I can put these arguments to rest right now: Indigenous people do not want to join modern society because they have no experience in it. It is is foreign and so they fear it. All people fear what is foreign, especially those who live their lives by anxiety, emotion, superstition, and cannot rightly even segregate between reason and the others.They have been raised not upon the principles of logic or reason, but upon superstition, and the belief in demons and spirits as a guide to happiness and morality. Nietzsche said that “a casual stroll through a insane asylum shows that faith proves nothing”. These environmentalists(like me), and these anthropologists rely on doomsday argument(among other weak arguments, especially in the realm of morality) that western society is unsustainable, evil, and will collapse under its own weight. This brash and supposition filled conjecture that we are all doomed, is sufficient proof for these people that they should go on believing in their ideologies of universal equality. (It even lends credence to their race-egalitarian lies, about the equivalence of all groups. If one of these lies fell off, it might be like a domino effect. Their psyches are so unstable) And so they reinforce the doctrine of non-truth… Read more »
Long story short is you are ethnocentric and scientifically illiterate with arguments that have the appearance of validity due to the nuance. Bias points:
Hunter Gathers lived nasty, brutish and short lives filled with drudgery. BS
IQ is culturally biased.
Intelligence down a single tunnel does not make for good decisions in a well rounded society. This fact is proven time in again on the fields of battle and within team sports. Raw intelligence does not mean that great decisions are a natural result. The person with ability to harness the talents of a diverse group of people and drive them to a common goal is both intelligence and raw power (The Mule in the Foundation Series).
Science – You have no clue about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and how that equation will play out as society supposedly advances. To go back to the first point, we have exploited the Earth to the point that we can no longer advance to a level to escape this planet, but we, especially you, do not get it. This very simple concept is why your ethnocentric bs is a waste of time when there are more important team members to recruit. Much Love Andy and John. If you provide links to refute my bias points, so will I. Gtrdun! ;)
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ139349&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ139349 http://www.psychpage.com/learning/library/intell/biased.html http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=35526908# There is essentially an endless amount of information to support either side of the argument. This is always the case with the unknowable nature of everything. Simply because things are unknowable does not render all understandings or systems without worth or without the ability to measure probability within a certain range of uncertainty. That short list I provided can continue onward all day, as i am sure yours can, citing books, scientific articles, research done etc. Sometimes we must leave the information up to the mind of the recipient of such information to compare and contrast that information with one’s own empirical data. I have always found the argument regarding modern psychometrics being more than slightly biased as really nothing more than specious argumentation to reinforce contemporary world views and to consolidate the influence of those who control those views. IQ tests are typically comprised of words in the native language of the test taker, mathematics(universal), and pattern recognition of shapes. The idea that certain people can not differentiate between triangles and squares by simple visuo-spacial recognition because of the culture in which they live, or understand the words used in their language, or math, is just not a strong argument, and is unsupported by the data. Gaps still do exist and they can not be explained away by bias or socioeconomic status for the most part, or without arguments that seem more like lengthy justifications that are particularly difficult to swallow. IQ test creators have worked on refining and perfecting tests to arguably eliminate cultural bias for the past 100 years or more, and much headway has been made in the last 20-30. I have no doubt that in the infancy of intelligence testing, IQ tests were significantly culturally biased, and the writings by Gould in the 80s and the many other very gifted philosophical minds who questioned the status quo of our understanding of intelligence were well supported at the time. The reality is, however, that IQ has all the indications of being a fairly objective analysis of one’s General Problem Solving ability today. The… Read more »
Ya’ll began by discussing economics, then you were split down the middle by Dr. Phil (who I think the real Dr. phil is a joke anyways). This is a classical debate fallacy to which you all fell for. Quick bickering for the tit-for-tat and get to the core problem. fu*k social arguments- hit the core- economics (looks like participatory economics at that)!!! Learn how to argue with ignorance, you’ll never be frustrated again and you can work towards solving the main problem which in-turn will solve a majority of the other problems. Who put America in this situation- Corporations or, politically correct-firms.
Like your discussions DE
I have just finished reading through all of the above comments and your thoughts on these problems (oops…I should have referred to them in the politically correct sense as “issues”!) I wholeheartedly agree with. I don’t have time to write much now (like most Americans too many hours to work supporting all those people and groups you talk about) but hopefully I will be able to contribute more in the future. I just wanted to say that I come from a professional background that’s actually one of the worst perpetrators of the problems America faces…academia and specifically the life and health sciences segment. I am not some heavily published (i.e. bought) medical or pharmaceutical researcher. I’m just a lowly exercise physiologist who’s only agenda is to try to teach people how to live healthier and more productive (by this I mean relative productivity, i.e. produce more on less time…God forbid! :-)))) which MAY also lead to happier lives?
I have been teaching college students and adults at many different levels for 23 years and especially in the last 10 what I have been witnessing is truly frightening. The overall quality has diminished and the number of high quality students is virtually non-existent. I can’t begin to count how many times I will be explaining an important concept and been interrupted by a student…”well, is that going to be on the exam?”. I have fought tooth and nail with administrators concerning curriculum and details about what is being taught and have pretty much been ostracized by my colleagues for professing the “strongest evidence” (notice I don’t use the word “truth”) to my students and even to them. Thinking “outside the box” is politically incorrect! But isn’t this is what higher education, even high school education should be all about?
I certainly have more to say, I just wanted to make sure this blog is still active. Waiting for any replies.
Thanks.
Frank-
Yes, this site is still going.
I too, have almost wanted to kill students for asking “is it going to be on the test”
The test is called life- and hopefully, we’re teaching you how to win against ever increasing odds.
The American dream is now just to make it through alive.
Thanks for your thoughts.
That article is totally correct. I fully agree with it. America is becoming a third world country, and it makes you think what is happening when a country is spending billions on other projects which aren’t even important and it can’t find money to help its own people, let alone its poorest.
A lot of you have compared the U.S. with Scandinavia, Germany, et al. Here’s the difference: 30% of the U.S. population is either Hispanic, black or Native American – three groups that seriously underperfom by almost every social indicator. 30% is a lot – and among the school-age population, it’s 40%. While Europe has its own underperfoming ethnic minorities (Arabs, some blacks, Turks), they tend to only be 5-10% of the population. A larger percentage of the population in Europe is part of the majority culture and is able to participate in mainstream culture more easily. Europe has its ghettos, too, but they are less noticeable – they don’t have 1/3 of the population living in them.
Sadly, since the white and Asian birthrates are low, the share of Hispanic/black/Native Americans is going to keep on going up. In California, they collectively are 50% of the population, and that state’s governmental infrastructure can no longer support so many freeloaders. That state is descending into Third World status as I type this. Texas will follow suit within the next decade, and other parts of America later on, too.
Welcome Morgan-
However, you left off birthrates in Europe- where Muslims are out performing the natives by a factor of 5. Give it 25 years- and Europe will be Muslim.
I think the American Middle Class will be an endangered species (In which case, I’m moving to Dusseldorf or Munich). There will be people in government-subsidised apartments, slums and tents, with no electricity.
There will also be people who live in mansions, where middle class tract houses once stood, have the latest Japanese/Korean Electronics, 3-4 imported cars, maids, and a Uninterruptable Power Supply/Solar Panels to smoothout the brownouts/blackouts from our aging infrastructure and eating exorbitant amounts of Russian Caviar and French Champange.
These people will almost certainly have exemptions from laws and rights that others dont. Most will work for our new egalitarian, socialistic, third world government.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter, and about one of those sweet government gigs…
Someone else has picked up this post- http://www.racedebate-msf.org/forums/showthread.php?p=25391#post25391
Made me re-read it- think it’s still a worthy post- almost 3 years later…