How racist is Dayton today?

An article about church leaders asking for bus service direct to the Dayton Mall and to the Fairfield Commons Mall brings out the absolute worst in our community:

A coalition of 18 churches wants the owner of the Dayton Mall and the Mall at Fairfield Commons to boost bus service to those retail centers.

“What we want is to have (bus) stops that are closer to the mall entrances, providing better accessibility for workers as well as elderly and handicapped riders,” the Rev. Earl Hudson, pastor of Harris Memorial CME Church, said. “This is a serious health and safety issue.”

via Churches want bus stops at 2 area malls.

Over 200 comments and counting- all of them racially charged.

Buses are the barrels that deliver the poison to our engines of economic development- instead of public transit for those who don’t believe in owning a car.

There are comments from “Archie Bunker” and all his friends. I’m afraid the DDN will blow it all away- so I’m going to save the vile sputum for posterity.

That our local leadership doesn’t respond to these crackers is an even more sorry state of affairs. There is no reason we should allow the racism- or the kind of behavior that these people rail against- in our community. It’s time to learn to live together. However, comments like these- make me think that maybe Dayton isn’t the kind of place I should live in.

(Please google- forgive me for adding this tripe to my site)

I only wonder how many of these comments would be posted if you had to post your real name and address.

From your neighbors in Dayton- g-d help us all…

The Dayton Mall used to have the bust stop close to the entrance but the rowdy behavior by many of the people at the bus stop created a safety risk for law-abiding patrons and the police. I personally witnessed numerous fights and drug use.Because of the thugs the mall became unsafe.Kudos! to Glimcher and Miami Twp. Police for cleaning up the mall & making it safe once again. Keep the bus stop where it is because the thugs are too lazy to walk an extra 500ft to prey on people.

Archie Bunker

6:46 PM, 4/14/2010

There’s one reason and one reason only that the busses don’t go to the malls. The color of that reason is Black. Plain and Simple.


6:43 PM, 4/14/2010

Man this is funny …maybe those Negroes in those heathen churches in west Dayton need to ask themselves why R.T.A. took the stops from near the Mall in the first place.It’s the bad behavior of the black kids who go to those same churches that these complaining old negroes attend. Stop complaining and solve the problems in your own back yard and you might put a halt to services like the bus stops at the Mall being taken away.


5:59 PM, 4/14/2010

Riverwalk does not have many thugs (I really didn’t see anyone that made me cross a bridge and head back the other way in Downtown). I asked a hostess how do they do that…guess the word is out, act like thug, get booted in the river. Salem Mall closed because no whites would go there. An F-16 pilot did and got cold ****** in the eye, now he can’t fly, after $1M to teach him how. bring money, don’t take the money from us lawabiders!

Riverwalk San Ant

5:43 PM, 4/14/2010

deer direy, i am glad that the aclu is now aware of dis racism at da mall.where else can our youf and hang out? i thinks we should get reverend lovelace and start recrutin mo poleece offizers at da mall.I knows dat they will just love being a dayton poleece officer jus like me. i can even show them how to git free money from the dayton taxpayers . rev. lovelace has realy helped stop all dis raciszm here at dayton poleece.i even got mo money for failin da exam.yea yea dayton rulez peece out

its me , offizer decree

5:35 PM, 4/14/2010

you dont think the riverwalk in san antonio has public transportation serving it in some way?

furthermore, do you think SW Texas shies away from its diversity when it markets Riverwalk?


5:34 PM, 4/14/2010

I say keep’em out, ever since the nurse at the Dayton mall got murdered and thrown in a manhole on the west side of D and the bums spray painted her car and drove it for months. San Antonio keeps the Riverwalk safe, you don’t see bums hanging out there, so keep the Malls and the Greene safe, our last hope for a nice place to relax. I don’t want no “pants on the ground, hats turned sideways” patrolling the food courts looking like they are all that. get an education and go to school!

Stay out of Greene

5:20 PM, 4/14/2010

I agree with you LawGal. its definitely a class issue as well. nobody should have to fear for their lives while theyre out shopping. to the points about the churches, i dont think theyre telling malls how to operate, theyre merely suggesting.

maybe a shuttle from senior facilities might be the most appropriate solution. that would be an expensive endeavor tho.


5:06 PM, 4/14/2010

Why are churches involved?? and I say no thanks, buses stay out of Greene county we have our own assistance for the elderly


4:59 PM, 4/14/2010

I think the Rev. Hudson and the Harris Memorial CME Church should worry about paying the $2,000 in back property taxes that they owe before they start worrying about access for the animals at the malls.

Hell the headline tomorrow will probably have the Rev ******* and moaning about how racist porperty taxes are, these morons are clueless clowns with a collective IQ of a rock, I’ll make sure that the mall owners know that they’re dealing with a property tax deadbeat, pot meet kettle.


4:57 PM, 4/14/2010

Where did someone say this was about race? Or about blacks? Have you ever driven down E.Third or through the east end? The problem isn’t race specific. It’s exhausting to constantly be accused of being racist because you don’t want punk kids (black, white, mexican, asian, hawaiian, WHATEVER) terrorizing the place. And then to go so far as to accuse an ENTIRE town of being racist? How preposterous! Beavercreek is not racist nor is Greene Co. the accusation of such is ignorant.


4:55 PM, 4/14/2010

What is a bunch of churches doing telling the mall how to operate? Shouldn’t they be spreading the gospel and feeding the poor?


4:55 PM, 4/14/2010

>>I don’t want to have to shop with a bunch of brown people.<<

Fixed it for ya.


4:52 PM, 4/14/2010

@yahoo, are you really looking at the situation realistically? are the current set-ups at Dayton and Fairfield really attracting anybody? more customers? new businesses? or is it just keeping people out? is not selling Jordans at the shoe stores in Fairfield just so black people dont shop there really a smart strategy for sustaining business? answer that and get back at me.


4:44 PM, 4/14/2010

All of us ‘thugs’ like ride our RTA buses to our favorite malls. Once we rob somebody we go back to are bus stops and wait for the busses. It really makes us mad when there running late and were standing there with the loot.

C’mon Biff, get real!!! Do you really think that were going to take a bus as are get a way car? What if weve lost are pass? Were screwed!

Dayton Democrat

4:40 PM, 4/14/2010

The city needs to look at why everyone is leaving this place no jobs nothing to do and crime in every area and high taxes on everything. And for the young kids here i feel sorry for them there nothing at all to do but the streets. That why we are moving out of dayton. It’s sad is was a great place a one time.


4:32 PM, 4/14/2010

The fact is the mall operators and the people who actually go to the mall to shop don’t want the bus stops. Let the hood rats stay in the hood. I don’t want to have to shop with a bunch of wanna bee gang bangers.


4:32 PM, 4/14/2010

If people ould actually start RAISING their kids instead of letting them run wild and act like fools (blk&wht) this world would be a bettter place. But instead its going to continue to go down hill because nobody cares anymore. Dont get me wrong though, there are still good kids out there, but they have JOBS or are at SCHOOL! but thats another subject


4:19 PM, 4/14/2010

Very simply. NO NO NO. No buses closer to any of the malls. It seems to me that everyone is getting off the topic. Guns? Sounds like a lot bragging. Thugs? Their everywhere. Glichmer just say NO. Kids don’t belong out running around all over the place and parents not knowing where they are. If they aren’t shopping for something they don’t belong at the malls. You can’t avoid somethings but letting the malls know you don’t want buses or lose your business? They’ll listen.

why not

4:03 PM, 4/14/2010

@intellectually independent- No, REALISTS live here, ones who remember history…Ones who live in teh real world..not goofy idiots like you

yahoo Serious

4:02 PM, 4/14/2010

What “killed” the Salem mall was declining patronage. This was caused by an infusion of youth related crime, and the perception of lawlessness. As a result, people left.

With the Dayton Mall, Bus stops in front of the mall entrances created a bundling of young people, who, like at the SM, acted in a discourteous and disruptive manner. When the bus stops were removed from in front of the mall to where they are now, distributed evenly throughout the Mall area, the rowdy gps. were removed

Retired Sgt

3:59 PM, 4/14/2010

man, the miami valley sucks. no wonder only old white grouches want to live there. not even young white kids stick around


3:57 PM, 4/14/2010

I highly doubt these special interest groups will get their way via Glimcher. Glimcher does not intimidate easily.


3:50 PM, 4/14/2010

“BUSING was the demise of the Salem Mall. ”

Your conclusion is not supported by your premise.

“Same started to happen to the Dayton Mall till they moved the stops.”

So, you’re saying that gang-bangers won’t walk a hundred yards? Evidently you don’t realize how stupid that claim sounds.

Mr. A

3:49 PM, 4/14/2010

CCW link from Ohio AG Office:…

Retired Sgt

3:48 PM, 4/14/2010


I open carry my 9 mm in my bank. I also know many people who conceal carry in their bank. Unless the bank is posted as a CPZ, it is not illegal to do so.

Trust me, when it comes to carrying a weapon – either openly or concealed – I know the law.


3:44 PM, 4/14/2010

If the teens had other places to go and other things to do, they wouldn’t congregate at the mall!

Also, regarding this comment: “This should be a communitee were we all get along, not judging people on the color of there skin!”

I prefer to judge people on spelling, grammar and syntax, you IDIOT!

Common Cents

3:42 PM, 4/14/2010

Good selection for the City of Riverside. He brings a lot of experience and training.

Retired Sgt

3:38 PM, 4/14/2010

Years ago my wife & I went to the Salem Mall. We were greeted by a very nice security guard who in the nicest way possible told us to leave as it wasn’t safe for two nice white folks to be in the mall. When questioned why, he said the black gangs were beating on people, especially whites. BUSING was the demise of the Salem Mall. Same started to happen to the Dayton Mall till they moved the stops. RTA offers project mobility for those who can’t make the walk from the stop. Leave it where it is!


3:36 PM, 4/14/2010

I met Chappelle, good guy. I dont see much change. He has a respect for the village, as most do who have vistited there. I encourage anyone who has not been to the Springs to head on out now that the weather is good, park your car and make a day of it. You wont be sorry..

Retired Sgt

3:34 PM, 4/14/2010

btw, Sarg – your take on the Riverside Hiring?


3:33 PM, 4/14/2010

@now i get it- what it means is that I try to experience all points of view, all inclusive. I make my choices from there. While I am conservative, that doesnt mean I cant appreciate a different point of view too. If asked my opinion, I will give it willingly, you can choose to believe me or not. And I certainly enjoy liberal venues, while still maintaining a personal POV of view. That is what is called tolerance. Without it, you will miss a lot of life experience

Retired Sgt

3:31 PM, 4/14/2010

Sarg – would not have pictured you at the Tavern! That is the original outdoor patio in the area, way before the smoking ban brought about all the outdoor seating. Just not the same with the first floor men’s room. You always knew who got to drive home by the one who did not fall down the stairs going to the bathroom! Will be interesting to see what happens their now that Chappelle has a stake in the shops…


3:26 PM, 4/14/2010

>>Seriously, keep your church think in your church.<<

Jesus would be proud of you.


3:23 PM, 4/14/2010

Lmao @ all these white people refering to black people as hood rats or because they live in dayton they are hood rats. GANGS no longer exist in dayton ohio, if we want to steal we will regardless of means or transportation. This is why we need a white and black everything. RACISM is shown.


3:22 PM, 4/14/2010

Yellow Springs and Ret. Sgt., I think I get it now.

Now I Get It

3:20 PM, 4/14/2010

Angies is at 705 Watervliet Ave. in Belmont, just west of Smithville. Great food..Sandwiches, cabbage rolls, etc

And yes, cops do know the best places to

I was a new wave cop though, Bagels not donuts

Retired Sgt

3:16 PM, 4/14/2010


And of course there is Tank’s, Joe’s Pizza, and the new Brown st shops to name a few..

My point is, there are great areas to shop that arent in malls, where you can find great deals and support small businesses. Not to mention just a little further than the Fairfield Commons Mall a unique experience awaits in Yellow Springs Ohio. Stop by Ye Old Town Tavern for some great sandwiches!

Retired Sgt

3:12 PM, 4/14/2010

What does a church have to do with getting bussing. The dirtbags that are getting arrested and banned from the malls haven’t seen a church. Keep them away from the malls it’s worked out so far. How bout asking the Salem Mall’s former owner how that bussing thing worked out for them? Seriously, keep your church think in your church.


3:10 PM, 4/14/2010

Hey Sarge…trying to find a new place to eat tonight…cops always know the best places! Where is Angie’s? Is it a bar or restaurant? What kind of grub do they serve? Thanks!!!!


3:09 PM, 4/14/2010

Seriously folks, churches advocating for low income elderly and disabled people most already on public assistance to get the the MALL by public transportation? What is wrong with this picture??? Why does this sound more like politics than religion to me??? Help me out here religious people. Why are these churches “outsourcing” their obligation to help the poor to the taxpayers? Why should the taxpayers subsidize transportation to the MALL for God’s sake? To get a job maybe, but to the MALL?


3:03 PM, 4/14/2010

LOL… Is Angie’s serving food yet? I haven’t been in their in ages, actually not since the Cunninghams. I do like the new theme, (even if it is a firehouse theme – don’t get me started on firefighters…). Did I forget to mention my favorite? the Big K Supper Club? Best pizza in the Second District! Dammit… Now I am hungry again…


3:02 PM, 4/14/2010

WTF did this person just say?

“We have called the ACLU and they think that it a problem that the discimination that is going on is allowed to go on for so long. They will be looking into and JUSTICE will be done. We dont need nobody not letting us ride to the stores with are familys.”

Seriously, a tiny bit of education goes a looong way.

PLEASE stay out of Beavercreek.

You’ll scare our children…


3:00 PM, 4/14/2010

@me- Sounds like we chew a lot of the same pavement. Slyders, Angies are both on my menu list, as well as Cadillac Jacks in Kettering..All within a mile of me. Mall shopping is a big PITA. I try to avoid it like a Democratic Convention…err, plague…lol

Retired Sgt

2:56 PM, 4/14/2010

Trust me, the mall in B’creek and CERTAINLY The Greene will NOT allow bus service from the west side of Dayton to bring their ilk into the Creek. It’s a moot point.


2:54 PM, 4/14/2010

Thats the problem w the Dayton Mallall the bus stops that bring in crime. Sorry, just open your eyes its a fact not an opinion. Of these 18 churches I wonder how many have a 50/50 mix of attenders? Most who ride the bus to the DM are not for the sake of a JOB. Its to shop or in some cases to steal or just plain cause trouble. Just listen to all the language of some around the bus stop, its F this and F that. Go help the economy and buy a car, pay for your own gas, then if its important u will go


2:54 PM, 4/14/2010


Honestly, I can say that I do not shop at Walmart – I don’t agree with many of their business practices. I was not literally saying that I will not shop at places that allow a CCW…I am was just proving a point that there are people that feel that opposite of you. But, if I wanted to cease shopping at retailers that allowed CCWs, it would not be too hard because I do most of my shopping online for convenience given my crazy schedule. Do you avoid all brick and mortar banks too?


2:49 PM, 4/14/2010

Dayton Mall traffic is horrible. The Greene is about 5 minutes from where I live and Fairfield is about 15 minutes. I can spend up to 30 minutes just sitting in traffic at 725/741. Personally, I usually only go out their for Kohls, Lowes or Target (none in the mall). If I am going out for food, I much prefer someplace close and small like a Slyders, Geez or Angies (well, when they had food).


2:45 PM, 4/14/2010

Redlegs – is that anything like Republican foriegn policy – you know, give/sell weapons to a dictator in the 1980s and when he uses them to murder innocent people, go to war against him twenty years later and sacrifice a lot of American lives??

amy katz

2:40 PM, 4/14/2010

@me- I remember them, and the tactics. Ultimately it is up to the owners to decide what is in their, and their customers best interests. Either way they go, there will be consequences. Hopefully they make the right decision for them.

Personally, I only go the DM a few times a year, Fairfield Commons is much closer from where I live. The Greene is even closer..

Retired Sgt

2:40 PM, 4/14/2010

These “eighteen churches” need to clean up their own yard instead of trying to spread the blight! How about taking your energy to teach family values, or how to work, or how to get off drugs, or leave that car alone it isn’t yours, or you won’t get respect with a nine millimeter, or what fatherhood is not “oh he da biological fodder of ma child”. Then we’ll help you with the bus stops.

Lean Thinking

2:39 PM, 4/14/2010

Hey Brian, why weren’t/aren’t you complaining when GWB is slammed daily? The anti-republican dribble every day? The Anti-Tea Party venom? Where are your tears for them? Boo Freaking hoo!

Yahoo Serious

2:35 PM, 4/14/2010

(continued) you have another think coming. You are considered prey and you will not leave the meeting until you have answered every question to their liking… Sgt – You have to remember these folks, they were notorious for their Saul Alinsky tactics!


2:34 PM, 4/14/2010

Getting in late here… but, I wonder if the folks at Glincher know what they are getting into with LEAD. I vividly recall meetings from the early ’90’s where they would invite folks to their meeetings and would not let them leave or would work to destroy their reputations until they got the answer they wanted. “No” or “We will look into it” is never an accepted answer by this group. They can be vicious, rude and domineering and if you think you are just going to be a guest at their meeting…


2:32 PM, 4/14/2010

@Dayton Democrat- Please use the proper spelling of there in the context in which you use it. “their” is the proper spelling for the word you are using.

(…their guilty conscience)

“There”- indicates direction (as in there he goes)

“they’re” is a contraction for they are

(as in they’re nice kids)

Our is spelled this way, not “are”

Conscience is spelled this way..

You didnt like the public school system I take it

Yahoo Serious

2:31 PM, 4/14/2010

DDN, is there a way to advocate people to use their full names on these comment pages? I notice that the racial slurs, a tingle of meanness and smearing President Obama appears here. There is frequent abuse of these rules in which those who don’t support the president want to harass, intimidate and grandstand their causes. I hope that you’ll take initiatives to prevent anonymous users from turning simple free for all opinions into an all out brawl. Much appreciated.

Brian Beach

2:24 PM, 4/14/2010

The bus stop is currently only 300 yards away from the Dayton Mall-well within a reasonable walk! Should we also provide golf carts to shuttle people the 300 yards to the mall doors?? Ridiculous! If you walk around the whole mall while shopping its more than 300 yards, so what’s the complaint? People can walk around the mall but not to the mall from the bus stop?? Why is this even an issue-how stupid!!!


2:24 PM, 4/14/2010

We have called the ACLU and they think that it a problem that the discimination that is going on is allowed to go on for so long. They will be looking into and JUSTICE will be done. We dont need nobody not letting us ride to the stores with are familys.

Dayton should stand together and not divided because divided we could fall and united we could be united as one.

A lot of people here may not be racists, but a whole alot are. And there arguing about it proves there guilty conscince.

Dayton Democrat

2:20 PM, 4/14/2010

I understand where the owners of the mall are coming from. There use to be a problem with fights near the bus stops when RTA was near the mall. However, the disabled and those who work at the mall long complained that they were discriminated against cause of a few bad people. RTA routes 17, 19, 24, X5 which carried more passengers were pushed down to Kingsridge Dr. Other ones 23, 42, 60, 61 which are fewer passengers at at the mall. RTA should at least establish a stop on the Sears Auto side.

Brian Beach

2:19 PM, 4/14/2010

Don’t most churches have buses? If they are so concerned about busing to the mall, they can use their own buses and do it themselves-pick up whoever they want and take them there. The taxpayers don’t have to pay for everything.

Buss no Fuss

2:19 PM, 4/14/2010

Yes I have Czar, yes I have, escpecially on the Oakwood dog thread..And the guy who said police are more likely to be abusers. Of course the fact that if a LEO is convicted of DV, he/she loses their job becuase of the weapon provisoon in the law. I dont see many LEO’s losing their jobs over DV. Clearly the poster is an idiot..

Retired Sgt

2:16 PM, 4/14/2010

Oops…sorry Sarge. Looks like I started something. I appreciate your experience and advice even if I don’t often agree with your politics. Have you noticed in the past few days a new crop of imbeciles has sprouted on this site? In spite of this fact, thanks for keeping the debate civil.


2:12 PM, 4/14/2010

And lets hope he doesn’t shop where we do, Libertarian. The fewer ignorant people I have to deal with in a day, the better.


2:09 PM, 4/14/2010

@Sgt. Thanks, will have to look up some more info and stop by the mall on my way home shortly to check it out. Always a fun discussion!


2:08 PM, 4/14/2010


That’s hilarious, because 95% of businesses allow a person to carry a weapon by default. (In other words, 95% of businesses do NOT post a sign indicating they’re a CPZ.) I carry my 9 mm in Wal-Mart every time I go there; it is not a CPZ. I assume, then, you do not shop in Wal-Mart? LOL.


2:06 PM, 4/14/2010

Retired Sgt: I carry my 9 mm 100% of the time, usually open carry but sometimes concealed carry. If a business does NOT post a sign to indicate it is a Criminal Protection Zone (CPZ), I am NOT breaking the law by entering it. (Of course, if they later ask me to leave, I must leave, else I can be arrested for trespassing.) If a store IS posted to indicate it is a CPZ, and I see the sign, I will not enter the store. As you can see, I know the law on this as well as you. :)


2:02 PM, 4/14/2010

Why are churches involved in this? Isn’t the mission of the church to spread the Gospel? If they would spend more time teaching their parishoners & community moral values they might be more welcome at the Malls.

country boy

1:58 PM, 4/14/2010

@Brian, If memory serves, I believe it is posted on the doors directly leading into the mall, but not on doors to exterior stores. I will attempt to find out for you, but the mere posting of a rules of conduct has been ruled as satifactory by the AG’s office shortly after the law was passed. FYI..Even before I retired, I carried my off-duty weapon only about 5% of the time. The chances you will need it is very small. You run a greater risk of being arrested than assaulted…

Retired Sgt

1:56 PM, 4/14/2010

Well what can you say to a poster that writes this dribble other than ….you are a complete moron. Coward also comes to mind. As well as uneducated dufas. Sounds to me like you have run afoul of the law, through poor life choices, and blame the police for your criminal behavior, low IQ and small pee pee size…

Retired Sgt

1:50 PM, 4/14/2010


I will not shop in any establishment that allows CCW. I will spend my money elsewhere. They lose, I win.

Argument can be made on both sides.


1:44 PM, 4/14/2010

so the oakwood cop shot the poor dog. It is common knowledge that cops that abuse animals are 3 times likely to abuse their spouse/children. Cops have the highest rate of domestic violence because most have poor social skills, almost to the point of mild retardation. Look it up, it is in every medical journal/study. DPD is another dept that shoots animals on a regular basis including their swat team. Big bad policemen have to shoot poor dogs. No wonder people hate the police, hell I hate them

Cops that shoot dogs=abusers

1:42 PM, 4/14/2010

@Sgt. I saw that. My question is, the handbook on CCW put out by the Attorney General says “At a minimum (posted) signs must be conspicuous and inform people that firearms are prohibited.” To me, an obscure COC on a website is NOT a sign posted in a conspicuous location. You listed Kroger, Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc in your last post. I am in the same boat with them as I am the mall, I have carried in those places many times and have never seen signs posted. What’s your take on that?


1:41 PM, 4/14/2010

@Brian- you didnt scroll down far it is again..the COC for the mall at Fairfield Commons restricitng CCW in the facility:


Retired Sgt

1:31 PM, 4/14/2010

By looking at some of the people that ride the bus a walk across the parking lot would do them some good!

Harry Koontz

1:27 PM, 4/14/2010

And that is your right libertarian. However, you must also understand it is THEIR right to enact policies that make their employees feel safe. Many other businesses have policies like these. Many Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-marts, KMart, Krogers, just of the top of my head, have similar policies. It’s important to know if you are going into a business with your weapon, if they allow it or not, or you risk arrest, prosecution and loss of your CCW permit. Just trying to help. Dont shoot the messenger

Retired Sgt

1:27 PM, 4/14/2010

Really, A person writes a post that indicates they can carry CCW at the Dayton Mall. I advise them they cant, and post the COC for the mall. Someone else asks if the Fairfield mall has the same restrictions. I post the COC for there. Then someone asks me directly about the Greene. I explain the law, and give them a phone number where they can call to check and see. What exactly do do you have a problem with? The fact that 25+yr exp. gives me insight you dont have?

Retired Sgt

1:19 PM, 4/14/2010

Retired Sgt:

As a CHL holder, I will not shop in any establishment that does not respect my right to self defense. I will spend my money elsewhere. They lose, I win.


1:18 PM, 4/14/2010

The purpose of the LEAD being involved in this issue is about equality. Why is there such a negative stigma about riding the bus? If I didn’t work so far from home I would ride the RTA. It is wrong to have people walk as far as they do just to get to work or take care of their shopping needs. Stop being so negative people.


1:17 PM, 4/14/2010

We do not want to see what happened to the Salem Mall happen to the Fairfield and Dayton Malls. Busing in all sorts of people destroyed the security people felt at the Salem Mall. If people are not able to walk from the bus stop at the Dayton Mall they shouldn’t be going. Let their churches provide them with transportation and let them out in front of the buildings.


1:16 PM, 4/14/2010

Thanks Sgt, but I was referring to the Mall at Fairfield Commons. Like I said though, just another reason to avoid the mall. Crime can and does happen anywhere, and I will not spend my money in places that have such little disregard for my right to defend my life.…


1:15 PM, 4/14/2010

PLEASE DO US ALL A FOVOR SARGE, walk on water , part the seven seas, cure famine , and do what most other people who truly believe they are GOD do. Your ego and your better than all mindset are truely a bore to the rest of us.Pleas take your Zanex and head back to anger managent class and learn something.

sarge knows all

1:10 PM, 4/14/2010

After reviewing most of the posts, I have to add one thought.

I would like to see who these local 18 churches are and from each of them, an explanation why bus stops at malls have anything to do with the religion they preach. I’m lutheran, used to be catholic, and I can’t find or recall anything in the writings or teachings that have to do with malls, buss stops, or “safety and health issues”.

I think we all know what this is all about, don’t we?


1:08 PM, 4/14/2010

Maybe those churches should use their vans to transport their elderly parishioners….after all those vans are untaxed as well as very many other assets the churches have….or maybe they can have the medic unit stop by the mall on the way to the hospital…

Joe D

1:03 PM, 4/14/2010

@Brian, The Greene is different than the malls, as it is a coop, or outdoor facility of multiple businesses. The malls can enact a code, uniform to all businesses within, because they are inside a building. At the Greene, each business can enact their own policies. NOTE: Most DO NOT allow CCW inside their businesses, and no alcohol selling D class rest. can allow it under state law. I am aware of no policy forbidding CCW in the open areas of the complex, you might contact security at 490.4911

Retired Sgt

12:59 PM, 4/14/2010

This is ridiculous! These people are using handicapped and elderly to push something through that is essentially an argument for those who *should* be out working to afford a car, but are instead gathering at the malls to spend their welfare checks on stuff they can’t afford. (and BTW, once the money is gone, they just steal it…I know, I worked there!). I agree that if there *are* elderly and handicapped, there should be a special stop. Otherwise, stop the bussing altogether!


12:56 PM, 4/14/2010

On a related topic . . . has everyone heard that McDonald’s is going to offer an Obama Value Meal!!! You order whatever you want and then the person behind you pays for it.


12:55 PM, 4/14/2010

Looks like Rev. Hudson needs to talk to the mall(s) rather than the bus company.

Easy Rider

12:51 PM, 4/14/2010

Oh no… they are making them walk 300 yards from the bus stop to the mall entrance? That is so unfair. Do the busses stop at Wal Marts front doors? Here’s some advice: Stop spending all your money and buy a car so you don’t have to ride the bus! Be responsible and independent!


12:46 PM, 4/14/2010

Interesting post on the code of conduct for the Beavercreek mall, Sgt. What’s your take on the legality of carrying there? I have many times and have never seen any signs on any entrance declaring the mall a criminal protection zone. Oh well, one more good reason to avoid the mall. This is the sign I am referring to ……


12:45 PM, 4/14/2010

Pathetic and sad,a few kids (blk/white)think they’re cute and entitled to act like thugs.The Greene isn’t immune.I was walking to Books&Co,I’m 72,heard yelling behind me,turned around and a boy, yes I’ll say it, he was black,standing up through the car sun roof yelling at all the women.He saw me and said”what you looking at b!tch”.Greene security does a good job,make you leave if not 18.I dare to imagine the impact of a busload like that boy. Come visit & shop,but act like you have manners.


12:44 PM, 4/14/2010

Although the Greene does have a code of conduct policy, since it is not a self contained shopping complex but more of a cooperative, each individual business reserves the right to allow/disallow CCW Permit holder weapons in their stores. Most dont not allow them. And as always, you can NOT bring a loaded firearm into a business that serves alcohol, regardless of whether or not you are drinking. It is a felony.

Retired Sgt

12:37 PM, 4/14/2010



12:32 PM, 4/14/2010

In answer to your ques., yes it also applies to the Fairfield Commons mall/The Greene.


And to the poster who said he would not shop at a place that refuses them the right to defend themselves-The Property owner/business owner ALSO has rights to establish rules for their property. Dont like them? Dont shoip there. If you are a CCW permit holder, these laws should have been explained to you in the training.

Retired Sgt

12:30 PM, 4/14/2010

The last poster was clearly not me. I have used my concealed weapon on numerous occasians. Two years ago I was nearly kicked by a sheep that I was molesting, had to shoot it, it tried to attack. I feared for my life. In october I was attacked by bigfoot, it was a good thing I had my gun. I was driving on rt 49 out in clayton and he ran out of the woods by meadowbrook cc. He started to attack my car and I had to shoot him. Two instances when I needed my gun and luckily had it on my hip.


12:22 PM, 4/14/2010

@ WOW, I totally agree with you. The comments on this article are so IMMATURE! Some comments should not have been approved. Everybody plese GROW THE H*** UP. Citizens kill me trying to claim that “certain” areas are better than others. Like they built the neighborhoods or own it. Oakwood, Beavercreek, Miamisburg, etc.have just as many mischievious people as other areas.

Get a Life

12:19 PM, 4/14/2010

I think the whole concealed carry should be a trick, when you pass the test and go to pick up your license you should really get your balls chopped off. Anyone who really thinks they need a gun on them all the time is a giant toolbag. Clearly out of touch with reality and should most likely not reproduce. Here’s a good alternative, if you are awarded you CC Permit, you are then under house arrest until you are dead.


12:16 PM, 4/14/2010

I was in the Golden Nugget pancake house on a Saturday at 9am and the ****** next to me had a concealed gun on his hip. I’m sure he had a CC permit. But I just thought what hell is going to happen at the Golden Nugget on Sat morning. Is this fat ****** go to save us from the gangsters planning a mass attack on the golden nugget?? Maybe I should start carrying a battle axe everywhere or a sword. I’ll start wearing a helmet in case an astroid falls to earth and might hit me.

protect me fatty?

12:11 PM, 4/14/2010

@ Pearl – I think Spinoza’s Pizza IN the Fairfield Mall serves alcohol…although I do not know what their liquor permit classification is…

Anyways, I don’t think the troublemakers we are worried about are worried about CCW permits…is a drug dealing gang-banger really concerned about a permit for the gun hidden in his extra baggy jeans?

Handicapped and elderly can call for the special short busses…those can drop them off at the front door. Gangstas and fatties have to walk.

Churches Stink

12:02 PM, 4/14/2010

When the Fairfield Mall was proposed the economic wizards made everyone aware that this region could not accomodate 3 malls and that one would die.

Now while everyone is complaining and blaming, just look at the empty stores that are in both Fairfied and Dayton Mall. Fairfield does not have a bus stop, but there are reports about all the crime in the area, breakins,assaults. Hmmm….wasn’t the ToysRus store just vandalized by a guy that broke in and took a bunch of electronics…..

A little Information

11:59 AM, 4/14/2010

Wow, I didn’t know the Dayton Mall prohibits the carrying of weapons.

I usually open carry (and sometimes conceal carry). I REFUSE to shop anywhere that does not respect my right to self defense and my right to carry a weapon. So I guess I will never set foot in the Dayton Mall.

Does anyone know if the Fairfield Commons Mall respects my right to carry a weapon?


11:58 AM, 4/14/2010

Why aren’t more people asking why the churches are concerned with this? Hey pastors, get your people together for a car pool! Seems everything is always turned into a race issue. One person was even bold enough to say let’s get the SCLC and the NAACP involved? The SCLC? Really? After reading the comments on here the racism seems to be spread among all races. And to say “All the people in Beavercreek are racist” that is an ignorant statement. Equal to “All RTA riders are criminals”.


11:57 AM, 4/14/2010

Let my brothers and sister ride the public tranports directly to the front doors where they can help grow the economy by spending their well deserved welfare checks. But not to worry I will provide grants to increase police protection and provide acceptable programs to help assist our riders of public transportation.

I will raise taxes on the rich to pay for free rides to the Dayton Mall by increasing the top tax rate on the rich who make over 40,000 a year to 100%

President Obama

11:56 AM, 4/14/2010

I’m sure this had been said but the Salem Mall was ruined by RTA stops and the Dayton Mall is heading that way.


11:54 AM, 4/14/2010

Yo Sarge…I thought that you would be exhausted from dealing with those idiots on the Oakwood dog story. As usual, timely and sage advice. I mean, geez, who would even imagine that a mall would allow a person to carry a gun???


11:45 AM, 4/14/2010

Retired Sgt,

You cannot carry at the DAYTON Mall – right. Fairfield Mall is just fine which is what I meant. I’ve checked with the Greene County Sheriff plus the Fairfield Mall is not posted, no drinks are served, and its not federally owned. I guess I can understand the Dayton Mall though. They have enough gansters carrying, why would we want the certified guys carrying too? *sarcasm*


11:44 AM, 4/14/2010

Say no to the return to Africa buses.

Mike Hancho

11:37 AM, 4/14/2010

Pearl, you CAN NOT carry CCW at the Mall…Just FYI..…

I would hate to see anyone operate under this assumption. The Dayton Mall, as well as Fairfield Commons and the Greene are CCW prohibited locations. Although you would not be arrested for CCW, you could be arrested for Aggravated Criminal Trespassing and lose your CCW permit…

Retired Sgt

11:34 AM, 4/14/2010

Making the arguement that it is an obstacle for workers and hadicapped people to get to the mall is valid, but I find it hard to believe. The main reason the bussing is gone is to make it more difficult for the criminals to get to the mall. It is a pain for me to go the the Dayton Mall because of all the young teens running around without a care for other shoppers. Even with the “curfew”, it’s ridiculous. I saw move the busses further away and have “special” stops for the handicapped.


11:32 AM, 4/14/2010

Why are these churches demanding that the government/taxpayers provide yet MORE free/low cost services to people most of whom are probably already receiving some public assistance? Let the churches band together and provide and pay for van transportation to the malls for the elderly and disabled from private contributions. It is fascinating that modern churches have pawned-off their responsibility to care for the poor and disabled onto the taxpayers. That is NOT what Jesus would do.


11:32 AM, 4/14/2010

I have a car, and have had one for twenty years. I go to the Dayton Mall or The Fairfield Commons MAYBE once a year each. What is at the mall that is soooo important? Walmart has almost everything you need.I rarely go to the mall. There is no real “NEED” to go there.So why MAKE the malls accomodate the tax funded bs bus service? The malls are not a neccesity.And little punk stinky dayton kids should skate board there any way. Or walk a little.What a loser mentality that you HAVE to go to a mall.

Jerry Winakey

11:31 AM, 4/14/2010

Remembering – do you have alzheimers or what? The Footlocker did well because the Salem Mall was full of punks in $200 shoes terrorizing everyone. As for the rest of the stores, the inventories were low because they got stolen blind. Go take some ginko or something.


11:30 AM, 4/14/2010

NO BUS STOPS CLOSER TO THE MALLS!!!! WHY!!! Go to the area next to the Dayton Mall and look at the thugs hanging around daring someone to look at them or say anything about their loud obnoxious behavior. After a gang of loud mouth kids pushed into my elderly mother in the mall and then walked on without apologizing, I swore I would never go into the mall again. I haven’t been there in three years. If they have to be bussed in, they don’t need to be there.


11:28 AM, 4/14/2010

Good thing I can carry concealed legally while at the mall… especially if this ever goes down.


11:28 AM, 4/14/2010

For posters slamming the Dayton Mall. They should take note that the Dayton Mall has removed the bus stops from their premises. Also the “Must be Accomopanied by an Adult if younger than 16” has helped in greatly reducing some of the crime and intimidation issues at the Mall. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it’s a lot better than it was just 3 or 4 years ago. Private Property Owners have the right decline bus stops on their property. This is a non issue.


11:27 AM, 4/14/2010

I am against busing going to the Fairfield Mall. I do not go to the Dayton Mall any more due to the crowds that the RTA brings. There is to much rif raf. The mall is not a hang out but a shopping place.


11:25 AM, 4/14/2010

Another poorly and incompletely written DDN column. Bus stops at the mall is just one component of the LEAD project. Additionally, the 18-church coalition is not made up of just churches on the west side. Churches with members from Oakwood, Kettering, Beavercreek and other suburbs are also involved.

OK DDN, you’re gotten plenty of comments. Now it’s time to print the entire story.


11:23 AM, 4/14/2010

There is a reason there is no bus service to the malls, CRIME!!!!!!! Look at the Salem Mall, oh wait you cant it is no longer there!!!!!!!!!(because of the CRIME) no to busing to the MALLS


11:18 AM, 4/14/2010

If bussing comes to Fairfield Commons, I predict there will be a sharp increase in the number of Greene County residents who apply for concealed carry permits.


11:17 AM, 4/14/2010

If people don’t have enough money to own a car. Then they don’t have enough money to shop at the mall.

There are no bargains at the Malls anyway.


11:17 AM, 4/14/2010

“Having buses drop people off simply for them gather and hangout encourages bad behavior.”

How about having buses drop people off so they can shop even though they don’t own a car?

Mr. A

11:13 AM, 4/14/2010

NO BUSING AT THE MALLS means SAFER malls. People without money have no business at a Mall. The Mall is not a hang out joint. the Malls are there for people with money to purchase items. Having buses drop people off simply for them gather and hangout encourages bad behavior. Tons of people stopped going to the Dayton Mall because it was overrun with gangs arriving on the buses. Dayton has short memories about that. DO NOT BRING BUSING TO ANY MALL! People with money will stop going!!


11:02 AM, 4/14/2010

The mall is overrun by teens, black and white…I was shopping at the mall one night after the election of the first black president and was called a ****** by one of the white teenagers that was just LOITERING at the mall. Trouble doesn’t have a color. What makes the white teens from Dayton and the surrounding area any different from the black teens from Dayton. If you’re scared to go to the malls do your shopping online and risk identity theft.


10:58 AM, 4/14/2010

Karon, would you please for once keep trains out of the subject that has nothing to do with trains. The comment was really stupid. Salem Mall was all but gone when Fairfield Mall was open. So don’t blame Fairfield for that. What these comments are all telling me is that NO ONE wants any of the malls having bus service. I think management of both malls needs to listen to the people. Both white and black teenagers basically just loiter in the malls and don’t spend money except for food.


10:47 AM, 4/14/2010

As for the things written about the Salem Mall? Does anyone remember the Air Force pilot who lost his sight in one eye when he was attacked there? Anyone remember the small riots there before the closing? I do – I left shortly before one and was thankful I did. I also remember sitting on a bench eating ice cream with my son and niece – and having a group try to force us from there so they could sit down. Terrified the kids – not me, I stood my ground. Not sure I would try that today…..


10:44 AM, 4/14/2010

So many racist comments… All it comes down to is that people (of ALL races) use the bus but, to reach the mall now they must stop 1/3 of a mile from the entrance and possibly cross a busy street.

If teens get rowdy they get thrown out. Big deal. Just because a teen rides the bus in doesn’t make them carouse about, just because they ride in their parent’s SUV doesn’t make them any better.


10:44 AM, 4/14/2010

@Sherry makes an excellent point. If this goes through, it will only enable more unsupervised teens access to these places to wreak havoc. It’s bad enough that so many are already dropped of by their parents, how many more would be hanging out there if they didn’t have to be dependend on someone with a car to take them there?


10:30 AM, 4/14/2010

For those that want an example of what is to come if the race-pimp reverends get their way, I can sum it up in two words, Salem Mall.

Old Scratch

10:26 AM, 4/14/2010

So now we are going to lay new tracks clear out to the Greene and Fairfield Mall? Are you kidding?

Do they allow patients to use computers in the Mental Hospital? That was the most ridiculas post I have ever read..

Yahoo Serious

10:23 AM, 4/14/2010

dan-if bussing did not happen,the east side schools would wonder,why cant we win in anything?

Delivery Man

10:21 AM, 4/14/2010

Instead of RTA, we could ride Trains to the mall! Rail could be made to go out to the Greene and The Fairfield mall! Trains can get us there!


10:20 AM, 4/14/2010

The people in Montgomery County pay an additional half percent sales tax to subsidize the RTA. The RTA is a joke and a waste of money!!!! I refuse to buy anything in Montgomery County because I refuse to pay an additional half percent sales tax on an item. I go to Greene or Warren County to buy. 6.5% vs 7%…..Talk to Miami Twp Police. They will tell you the crime at the Dayton Mall is incredible due to the RTA.

the truth

10:10 AM, 4/14/2010

Hang tough, Glimcher! Do not let these racist special interest groups bully you into giving up your rights and your obligation to provide a safe environment for you patrons. You won’t be losing sales as the whiners apparently aren’t shopping at these malls, anyway.


10:08 AM, 4/14/2010

As an African American I dont feel it is a racial issue- I feel it is a nuisance to allow the inner city kids to be bussed directly to the malls. When I used to shop at the Salem Mall I would be bombarded by teens trying to get to the theatres, CD stores etc. At the Dayton Mall I seee teenie-boppers Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, texting and gathering. I enjoy the Greene because of its diversity, sophistication and crowd between 25-35 range. I dont want 2 be bothered kids PERIOD!Blk/Wht included


10:03 AM, 4/14/2010

the police chief felt that salem mall security could handle the problems. they couldnt so people shopped elsewhere.rta was there before any of these things happened.the demise of the salem mall started when spencers gifts moved out. the dayton mall started to see things escalate and nipped it in the bud. fairfield commons never planned on a bus stop and never will.

Delivery Man

10:02 AM, 4/14/2010



9:45 AM, 4/14/2010

Vote with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don’t want buses to bring in problem cases who’ll ruin the Malls, & they do it anyway, refuse to shop there, period. Buy on-line; go to smaller shopping ctrs, or better yet, save yr $ for a rainy day (like when sanity returns). The silent majority better start putting their money & their actions where their mouths are or they will lose their civil society. I agree with the poster about just having handicap bustops close to Malls. Problem solved.


9:29 AM, 4/14/2010

One of the last hold outs at the Salem Mall was Foot Locker. They still were making money up until their last day. They provided what was in demand and people supported them. Had other stores done the same, there would be no need for this conversation.


9:29 AM, 4/14/2010

The Mall at Fairfield Commons is what killed the Salem Mall. Large chain stores drastically reduced inventory at the Salem Mall and forced people to go elsewhere because advertised items were not “in stock”. They closed and blamed us for not supporting them. The only stores that refilled the SM were smaller more trendy stores that attracted younger crowds. The older shoppers left because there was nothing there to buy anymore.


9:25 AM, 4/14/2010

Gotta go with “jon” on this one. Attention shoppers – neither Fairfield nor Dayton will every allow buses. Do we not remember the running gun battles in the Salem “fricking” Mall? Hello???? There are already enough hood rats and punks at the Dayton Mall already. Do you think Miami Township wants to see its biggest single point tax base suffer at all? Think again. It has, is and will always be the practice at Fairfield and in Beavercreek. No way, no how….


9:21 AM, 4/14/2010

@Sigh…thank you. People are saying race is not the issue, we both know where the majority of violent crime happens in Dayton, and we all know who (in general) lives in that part of town. Thus, it is rational thought that people from the most violent part of town will tend to bring violence to other parts. It is all about risk reduction. I prefer to shop where there is a reduced chance of being caught in the crossfire when one gang-banger starts a gunfight with a rival.

Churches Stink

9:20 AM, 4/14/2010

This a black man that is only worried about if the Westside thugs are getting fair treatment. Everytime I drive by the Dayton Mall area on SR741, you see the young thug punks getting of the bus. Why do you think the Salem Mall is no more. No one wanted to shop there because of the crime and harassment by these punks. Prices go up to make up for the loses. I don’t do business at the Dayton Mall mostly because of the cost and the reftraft that hangout. Blacks have created their own problems

nothing but punks

9:19 AM, 4/14/2010

An example of why bus stops were moved at the Dayton Mall:…

What the malls are trying to avoid by limiting bus stop access:…

When the Dayton Mall limited Bus stop service, crimes involving youths dropped exponentially. It has nothing to do with race, as the problems were equally distributed between white and black youths

Retired Sgt

9:16 AM, 4/14/2010

I would hope that the elderly and handicapped would have a good support system with family, friends, and church members to where someone would take them to where they need to go,so they do not have to wait out in the elements. If they are good people then they will have good people around them to take care of them and should not need bus transportation. Look at what it did to the Salem Mall…and now look at The Greene which does not have bus access. You are in denial if you don’t see the truth.


9:13 AM, 4/14/2010

Its amazing how an article about wanting bus stops closer to the mall entrance turns into gangbangers, black on black crime, and being shot. What does any of that have to do with the bus stops at the mall LOL..


9:13 AM, 4/14/2010

Probably a ploy by the RTA to force service issues. Some folks there have been trying everything and until now have failed. Go Frank, looks like you finally found the backing.


9:09 AM, 4/14/2010

Perception is more powerful than fact! Why do you think people do not go to downtown Dayton. They are afraid! I am sure that the Mall owners in this area don’t want to end up like the Salem Mall.


9:06 AM, 4/14/2010

Strictly speaking, there’s no such thing as an “illegal gun”; only the illegal possession of one (or a certain type, etc.)…and I would argue even that is unconstitutional.

As for violent crime- it’s not just perception. Check the Dayton homicide maps against the demographics of those zip codes. Check the Dept. of Justice statistics.

People want to avoid violence. It’s not “shark-hate” to avoid swimming with sharks, even if only one out of three will bite…it’s simple risk-reduction.

sigh @ “Churches Stink”

9:06 AM, 4/14/2010

Many of you keep talking about how the Dayton Mall isn’t that bad and you haven’t seen “Thungs and Gangbangers” there. Maybe you forget the fact that the mall had to increase security, create tighter restrictions on unsupervised teens / troublemakers, and moved the bus stops to achieve that. Think back 6 or 7 years and tell me there wasn’t a problem.


9:01 AM, 4/14/2010

To the Race baiting Black churches,who cares what you think should happen,Here’s a suggestion wait until the Salem Mall Makes a Come back then have RTA drop off all the Punks and hood rats that caused all the problems at the Dayton Mall and watch how fast they Destroy The Salem Mall AGAIN. Should be concerned about your Neighbor Hoods,killings shootings,Funeral drive byes,Drugs, Gangs,NO,YOU WANT BUS STOPS CHANGED.Have a peace march or groups that Talk about it but nothing changes.Hypocrites


9:00 AM, 4/14/2010

The last thing the Mall at Fairfield Commons needs is a bus stop. The bus service to the Dayton Mall is what has ruined that location. The thugs and hoods take the bus to the mall and take your car home! You are only lucky if you aren’t already in the car. Keep the buses away from Fairfield Commons and as far away from the Dayton Mall as possible. It’s a real safety issue!


8:59 AM, 4/14/2010

We all no the real reason no bus stops were put at the malls,cause they wanted to keep certain people out.I remember shopping at the dayton mall once and being stopped by a store cop who assumed we were shop lifting. Once he searched our bags and found nothing then expected us to just go along our way.I told him he only did this gecause we were black and then we returned everything we bought.This was nothing but racist behavior.This type of thinking need to stop,not all blacks are thugs/thief.

mall rats

8:57 AM, 4/14/2010

The race thing may be a perception issue, but where are the majority of shootings in Dayton? I admit that this is an assumption, but I would say there are more illegal guns being carried by people living west of the river than any other place in the Dayton area. Sure, there are lots of nutjobs with guns…its just a question of who has a permit and who is a gang banger. I am not afraid of any certain race, I am afraid of being shot by a dumb*ss thug wannabe of any color.

Churches Stink

8:54 AM, 4/14/2010

Has the Churches consider having thier own private bus service to the mall. They could go on Saturday morning and take all the eldery and handicap. It would be a great service to everyone. Give them to 1:00 in the afternoon. They could have a nice lunch. Enjoy other members of thier congreation. Wouldn’t it be great. That way the holgians wouldn’t go with them.


8:54 AM, 4/14/2010

Umm, does anyone really care what the churches want? Why don’t they use all their tax free money to provide free busing to the mall doors for the people they are talking about.


8:49 AM, 4/14/2010

What about the blacks who loose their lives as a result of senseless black an black crime? How dare these “churches” put this “civil right” before the right to life. What stupidity! Clean up your own neighborhoods, get your own life together before you start judging and making demands of everyone else. Respect is earned not given.


8:49 AM, 4/14/2010

” The punks and ganbangers who closed the Salem Mall ride the bus to the Dayton Mall. They have to go somewhere to rob and harass people! ”

I have yet to see ‘punks and ganbangers’ at the Dayton Mall, and I’m there on a regular basis. Are you sure you aren’t letting your racist imagination run away with you again?

Mr. A

8:48 AM, 4/14/2010

Well where should I start. The RTA is supposed to be a transportation system for those who cannot provide their own and the handicapped. But in reality this system symply provides those folks who care to steal more than they buy a ride to local retail areas. This creates a huge burden on retailers to employ loss prevention staff and local law enforcement to arrest the thieves. It is also reflected in the enormous loss of revenue to these businesses!!!


8:48 AM, 4/14/2010

I remember the salem mall and going there to shop,I never felt threatened by anyone and took my children there also. I never let my children go to any mall alone because I don’t trust other people,black,white or whatever. I have been to the fairfield common mall and seen white kids acting just as bad as they say black kids do. And white adults aren’t any better. I think it is a shame that we have to go clear across town to spend our hard earned money. I rode the bus for years and I’m not a thug!

mother of a teenager

8:47 AM, 4/14/2010

I work in the North part of the County. Though Miller Lane is not a mall….it is still a major shopping area and a hub for commerce. BELIEVE ME, the more bus stops, the more littering, loud people and carts flipped over sideways as a sitting bench. I see it all the time and hate it. We live in a very fat society….a longer walk is beneficial to all. I can’t remember when I saw an elderly person at a bus stop…unless to a self defense class maybe.

an employee

8:46 AM, 4/14/2010

It’s sad but as Bob stated it is race issue. it’s not only the black youth that have no respect for people. You also have white youth that are the same way, and most of the time they are worst then the black kids. So you can’t call one out without the other.

Don’t leave that out

8:46 AM, 4/14/2010

You’re right, you can shop wherever you want, but society doesn’t have to take you there. The RTA absolutely has a choice, as do, more importantly, the private land owners who’d permit the stop. It’s up to them to decide if it’s worth the risk. The former Salem Mall seems to indicate that it’s not.

Rather than spreading problems to outlying communities, why not fix your own?

original “sigh” @ Dayton Dem.

8:43 AM, 4/14/2010

Scott – As I expected you did not address my questions. I also disagree with you that this would not be an issue if it were white teens. This issue is unsupervised teens who have no respect for others and in fact seem to enjoy prying on people. I repeat that you, and some others, are always quick to play the R card but it is always a one-way street. Do you really believe there are no racist in the black community? Get real and stop assuming the majority of racists are white.


8:43 AM, 4/14/2010

As someone quoted earlier, from that great civil rights leader The Reverend Doctor Rodney King “Why can’t we all just get along?”…well the reason we don’t get along is because the black youths being unleashed at the malls haven’t been taught honesty, respect, morals or manners. Do not let them off the bus. Yes, it is a race issue.


8:36 AM, 4/14/2010

The Dayton Mall is already a dangerous place. The punks and ganbangers who closed the Salem Mall ride the bus to the Dayton Mall. They have to go somewhere to rob and harass people!

The first time I see young gang bangers at the Greene, I’ll never set foot there again.


8:31 AM, 4/14/2010

great idea!! that way more blacks could ruined the rest of the 2 malls as they do everything!!!!!!busing is what ruined all the schools also !!!


8:29 AM, 4/14/2010

Here’s an idea why don’t we put a bus stop in the 6400 Block WAYWIND DR


8:29 AM, 4/14/2010

I grew up near the crater that used to be the Salem Mall. I remember how vacant it was after the shooting. I also got stuck in two different riots two consecutive years at the bus hub next to it.

You want a mall that’s more accessible, build it in your own community. You can use the rubble of the mall that your community already destroyed. Need startup capital? Go ask Brother Trammell.

the original “sigh”

8:29 AM, 4/14/2010

The kids that you claim are the problem STILL ride the bus to the mall! They are able to walk from the new location to the mall!!! It is not a problem. The problem is for the elderly people that can’t walk 1/2 mile from the hub to the mall. It always amazes me the amount of small minded racist idiots that live in this city! I know of people that say they have NEVER seen the amount of racism that is here in Dayton. And people wonder WHY Dayton will never get anywhere-SMDH!

guess what?

8:28 AM, 4/14/2010

Hey Time out you sound like a fool!!! Blacks are not the only culture that wears FUBU and Jordans; its people like u that make the world go bad with your comments and ways that are back in the 1950/60. I dont understand how someone wanting a better way for the elderly can be any harm to u or any of the other fools on this site? Teens are Teens black or white and as I think about it hell i see just as many white kids acting a fool now adays as blacks. Like someone else said u reap what u sow.


8:28 AM, 4/14/2010

F3: The reality is if the buses were bringing white kids, no one there would say anything. The problem is more perception than reality. My mother works at the Dayton mall and she never has any problems nor has she seen any problems. What are you talking about “followers” I have nothing to do with this, and I live in the suburbs too. I know people who live in Beavervreek and they tell me how people there are. Racist.


8:27 AM, 4/14/2010

In 2004 churches were telling us how to vote, then in 2007 churches were telling the Dayton City Commission how to vote on the Human Rights Ord., and now churches are trying to tell a private business where to put bus stops on private property (yes, the mall is private property). When is enough enough? When do the churches stop trying to force themselves on others? Pluck the plank from your eye before trying to remove the splinter from your neighbor (or something like that).

Churches Stink

8:25 AM, 4/14/2010

I think this would be a great idea!I could take the kids to the Fairfield Mall.Use peoples have great sweet potato pie an fried chicken.We never said anything when you all came to our Salem Malls!


8:24 AM, 4/14/2010

The Greene is in Greene county, they do not fund the RTA.


8:24 AM, 4/14/2010

I totally agree that the bus stops be left alone. If you can’t walk the 300 yards then stay home. Leave the buses and bus stops alone.


8:21 AM, 4/14/2010

What is the best thing aboutthe bus stop being removed from the Dayton Mall? Answer: Mimai Twp. protected policeman John Dipeitro isn’t on TV nearly as much.


8:20 AM, 4/14/2010

Let me also add the Greene does not have RTA service “to the front door” (Across the street) but already has MAJOR problems on Friday and Saturday night with teenagers loitering. It’s really bad. The other night there were 25-30 teenagers standing in the middle of the parking lot at Wendy’s / Tim Horton’s. Doing nothing but blocking traffic and texting.


8:17 AM, 4/14/2010

Seems to me that with “serious health issues” those people should not be hanging out at the mall and they aren’t working retail if they can’t stand up for long periods of time, unless they are in wheelchairs and those in ‘chairs are used to those mall stops already. I agree with others, why are the churches taking this on? Why not put their time into youth and neighborhoods. Your seniors have many opps. your youth, not many and they will be here longer, we hope.


8:16 AM, 4/14/2010

I would urge the Mall managers to resist this.


8:14 AM, 4/14/2010

Let me add that I agree with everyone who says the churches should concentrate on the children in their neighborhoods who aren’t being raised. Churches used to be heavily involved in their neighborhoods, now they just want their media time. If they are so concerned for the elderly & disabled, put them on the church bus & take them to the malls yourselves – do your good deeds that don’t involve taking tithes from some naive, elderly person’s social security check!


8:07 AM, 4/14/2010

Remember the Salem Mall ? Leave the bus stop’s alone !


8:07 AM, 4/14/2010

DDN- Todays Headline

“Armed robbers hit drive-through, flee on foot…”

Perhaps these teens could have taken the bus


8:05 AM, 4/14/2010

“This is a serious health and safety issue” My question is for who? My answer, It’s a serious health and safety issue for the responsible, supporting patrons that sustain these shopping centers. Keep the race card in Dayton where it belongs, we all know how well that has worked. To the mall’s owner, please do not give in to this, stand your grownd and support those who support your business. If busing starts, you will loose…(salem mall memories)


7:58 AM, 4/14/2010

These churchs know, and everyone else knows why these malls do not want bus service to their door. Is it racist, NO, it is an issue of economics and safety. Why invite an element to your door that you know will steal your goods, intimidate your customers, and create an intolerable situation. Churchs, raise your children to know respect, accountability, and regard for their fellow man. Maybe then the rest of us will be more willing to share our world with them.


7:56 AM, 4/14/2010

When I moved here in 1986, I visited the Salem Mall once, and I never went back. Especially after that incident where a shopper who was an AF pilot got an eye poked out by some punks. After the FFC Mall opened, I quit going to the Dayton Mall and the Upper Valley Mall. Why? Punks.

Today, no Salem Mall. Have no clue about the Upper Valley Mall. Haven’t been to the Dayton Mall in years. Long time ago someone said “No busing to the Mall at FFC”. I concurred then, and I still concur today.


7:55 AM, 4/14/2010

I believe this issue came up a few years ago in Beavercreek. Greene Co told RTA they could add bus service to Fairfield Commons at their own expense. RTA wanted the people of Greene Co to pay for adding routes and stops. The Greene does have stops nearby on Indian Ripple Rd. Getting them closer would prove to be impossible with the narrow streets there.


7:55 AM, 4/14/2010

If it truly is for the safety of elderly & disabled shoppers, then have them obtain a special card from RTA. Let this card give them & ONE guest “front door” access. All others, get off at the corner! I rode the buses to the malls 20 years ago with friends, but we were taught respect. For those of you wanting to blame blacks for all the crimes – I was robbed by a middle-aged WHITE couple when at Meijer with my daughter. Wake up & realize that crime doesn’t have a color!


7:54 AM, 4/14/2010

RTA already has a program in place to take the disabled ,and elderly right to the front door. Pickup the phone ,and call them 24 hrs. before Reverend. This is BS.


7:54 AM, 4/14/2010

I moved to Beavercreek to get away from the RTA buses and the people they bring. This would be the end to Beavercreek and must not be allowed. How about the churches on the west side preach about being a father to your children, and doing well in school. That is the solution to helping the west side.

Save the creek

7:52 AM, 4/14/2010

Why do you think they MOVED the bus stops away from the Dayton mall several years ago?

Why do you think the Salem Mall closed?

Why do you think the Greene did NOT want to be on teh RTA bus line?

Not racist, it is becuase of the trouble they caused..white and black…

Yahoo Serious

7:51 AM, 4/14/2010

IMHO Beavercreek and the Fairfield Commons mgt. will just TOTALLY ignore this whole nonsense. It is really too bad that the minority of bus riders who are thugs ruin it for all the others. But Beavercreek and mall managers can not raise peoples kids for them.

C. Eric

7:50 AM, 4/14/2010

The only people who bring race into this conversation are people like Jim and Dayton Democrat. This has nothing to do with race. It has to do with the TYPES of people that commute to the mall via RTA. They are generally Youths and trouble makers. Yes, there are some good people too, however, the comparisons to the Salem mall, as well as a few years ago at the Dayton Mall are well documented of founded in reality. Travelers via RTA cause more problems for the retailers than the revenue generated.

Yahoo Serious

7:48 AM, 4/14/2010

I hope buses don’t start going to these malls. It will ruin the malls just like it did to Salem. This would be the worst mistake. If the churches and RTA want bus service there then they should be responsible for paying the extra police it will be needed to keep it safe.


7:47 AM, 4/14/2010

The Fairfield Commons doesn’t need bus service. Nor does the Dayton Mall need more. A lot of people do remember the Salem Mall. It was beautiful and a great place to shop. Now it’s gone. Enough said.


7:45 AM, 4/14/2010

So, the well meaning clergy wants busing to the Commons. Hey pastor, have you been to the Salem Mall lately? Oh, that’s right, it’s gone along with most anything else on Salem Ave. It was a wonderful mall but when the buses pulled up it resembled locusts descending on a wheat field. Maybe you should redirect your efforts to your own part of town and and make it a viable shopping area.


7:39 AM, 4/14/2010

Scott – The only small mind people are you and those who believe this is a race problem. Anytime someone disagrees with you and your followers point of view you play the race card. Since you want people to see you as some kind of righteous citizen perhaps you could tell us why the Salem Mall folded. Or why retailers are reluctant to set up business in certain parts of town. It wouldn’t have anything to do with crime would it? Of course not, must be those racist in the burbs.


7:38 AM, 4/14/2010

I dont think it is a safety concern. Besides, Fairfield Mall doesnt need bus service. It is located in Green County. But the biggest kicker is why are a bunch of churches lobbying to have bus service? They should lobby more about parents taking a bigger responsibility in their kids not a bus service. I hope the community stand against this.


7:35 AM, 4/14/2010

Maybe there is a reason that Greene county is racist? Gangs? Maybe they should clean up their own folks before they push them on the rest of us.


7:33 AM, 4/14/2010

Nobody here said anything about the color of anyone’s skin. People have made comments about “Trash” and “Thugs” which can be anyone of any race. These terms refer to how people act and not the color of their skin. These people are the majority of the RTA riders, did destroy the Salem Mall, did destroy the RTA hub downtown, did destroy Courthouse Square, and will destroy any other area they are bussed to. It’s a matter of not being raised properly and not knowing how to act or behave in public.


7:30 AM, 4/14/2010

Anyone remember the Salem Mall?? I remember being a teenager and it was a great place to go. Then the ghetto moved in and destroyed it. I knew people that worked the stores in and around the mall that told me they were getting shoplifted to death.

RTA Ruining The Area.

watch it happen

7:30 AM, 4/14/2010

The level of racism in Greene County is amazing. Thankfully we did not buy our house in Beavecreek. I don’t want my children rasied among the small minded racist who obviouly live there


7:28 AM, 4/14/2010

If it is simply a safety issue. Then have only PARATRANSIT busses stop at these locations, because only the handicapped can ride these type of busses. There, problem solved

Safety Issue

7:24 AM, 4/14/2010

Dayton Democrat, it is really more of a demographics issue than race related(although there is a correlation to an extent). MOST people don’t care (Yes, I know some do…) who shops at the malls, they just don’t want the thugs and gangster wanna-be kids and adults roaming around intimidating people. White, black, hispanic whatever… come on down and shop, just please show some class and respectability. Kids who dress and act like thugs please stay away.


7:23 AM, 4/14/2010

Have to say no thanks! Crime in Beavercreek is low but bringing riders in from Dayton will only boost theft and auto theft. They will ride the bus to Beavercreek, steal from the mall and then steal a car back to Dayton. So in short, NO THANKS. Look at what happened with the Salem Mall. Colonel Glenn is close enough for the Dayton Urban riders . Thanks for the offer but I want to keep my nice new car in the driveway, not at the bottom of the river. Call it what you want, u know the facts.

No Thanks

7:20 AM, 4/14/2010

Allowing the RTA to have stops at these malls is a terrible idea! I agree with jdog, this would most likely create alot more crime in the mall areas resulting in businesses possibly leaving due to the higer rates of crime. It just a BAD idea! I really hope that the RTA will hold public meetings to see how the GENRAL PUBLIC feels about this move!

NOT a good idea!

7:20 AM, 4/14/2010

Dont allow this Greene County! If people need to take the bus to the mall then they can’t afford anything there. Whether they admit it or not, everyone knows this will only bring large groups of kids looking to steal and cause trouble. Dayton Mall figuered it out and saved their mall.


7:19 AM, 4/14/2010

I’d vote no RTA stops at the Mall at FFC. If you can’t afford to buy a car, then you can’t afford to shop there. If you can’t afford to shop there, you’re just loitering. No need for Dayton inner city kids to loiter at the mall…just go to the Salem Mall….oh wait, it’s no longer there….wonder why?


7:16 AM, 4/14/2010

They are willing to sit down and talk? Talk about what? The ramifications of bussing in scores of unsupervised youths? If these ministers would put as much effort into helping mommies and daddies become parents then maybe their children would learn how to be respectful. Perhaps the ministers could get their parishioners to volunteer to transport the elderly and handicapped to the malls or other retail outlets. But I don’t see that happening as that would require commitment and sacrifice.


7:15 AM, 4/14/2010

The RTA will obviously make more $$ under this proposal. So treat them the way we would a private business. Screw them good. Make them subsidize the additional costs for extra police & security personel. Make them pay for enhanced lighting and extra security cameras at the mall. Just maybe RTA would then pass the extra costs onto the “consumers” of these additional routes.

Just another reason to go get a conceal/carry permit and pack heat for your personal protection.

R U Kidding ME

7:12 AM, 4/14/2010

if this happens the fairfield mall will actually lose business. it will bring in thiefs and thugs from dayton that will steal from the mall and visitors. good customers will not go to the mall anymore because of this. just look at 3rd and main, hardly any decent people frequent there anymore cause of the dirtbags and thugs. and of course, the salem mall is prime example.


7:09 AM, 4/14/2010

Jim is right and this is nothing but a racists running scared cause some little colored boy may want to shop at there stores well thats storys over folks. We can shop wereever we want to and thats the law. The RTA has no choice and once we shop there the business owners are happy to get are money. Someone above is right when they said the only color they care about is green. Weve got it too.

This should be a communitee were we all get along, not judging people on the color of there skin! :)

Dayton Democrat

7:09 AM, 4/14/2010

I don’t recall God saying “Go to the mall.”

Heck no

7:08 AM, 4/14/2010

Timeout, a little racist are we???? How did this whole thing of busing to the malls turn into “black” bashing? Last time I looked there are others that ride the RTA besides “blacks”. KARMA has anyone heard of that before? Well to all of you that are so hateful, I do hope you realize that what goes around comes around!!! You will one day reap what you sow!!!


6:56 AM, 4/14/2010

Yeah bring in more stops and Miami twp will have to hire more cops! Remember the Salem mall!!

smoke & mirrors

6:56 AM, 4/14/2010

When there is talk of buses at the Mall I always remember the mother that was killed leaving Dayton Mall just for her car. The RTA bus stopped running at 7 pm and some punks missed the last bus so they carjacked her so they could get a ride home. She was killed because teenagers needed a ride.

I won’t shop at Dayton Mall because of the gangs. The police in the area keep it very quiet about the number of crimes. It could easily become another Salem Mall.


6:55 AM, 4/14/2010

I really hope the Greene resists this. I worked at the Dayton mall long enough to see what the bus route brings in: Teenage thugs who can’t get to the mall by any other means who roam the mall in big groups and don’t buy anything except food. The Dayton Mall moved the bus stop to discourage these thugs from coming. The malls are trying to prevent what happened to the Salem Mall from happening to them.


6:53 AM, 4/14/2010

Mike – don’t you ever encounter these kids? Does The Greene really want these problems? The Greene is an upscale place and doesn’t need run down with a bunch of kids. The stores there are mostly expensive anyhow so why do kids need to be there without their parents? Let’s keep The Greene nice. Not a mass of kids overrunning it.


6:49 AM, 4/14/2010

The Dayton Mall has a policy of 16 or older on Friday & Saturday nights. So what? Its not the little kids its the 16+ year old kids that swarm that place. I NEVER GO THERE ON FRIDAY OR SATURDAY NIGHTS AND LATELY NOT EVEN ON SATURDAYS. In fact, I try NOT to go to the Dayton Mall anymore. These kids are taking over the mall.


6:46 AM, 4/14/2010

Why can’t they have buses at The Greene? Easton is twice the size and I see buses there every time I am there.


6:44 AM, 4/14/2010

Big Dog – Montgomery Co. is not scum anymore than Greene Co. is. However, next these people will want to ruin The Greene. They want buses there also. NO to buses at the Greene.

Jim from Dayton – your off also. The burbs don’t need to support the Dayton kids as well as their own. We pay enough taxes! Churches need to stay out of these affairs! We don’t need a bunch of kids running around the malls terrifying people. People are already starting NOT to go to the mall because of it.


6:39 AM, 4/14/2010

These churches need to teach their yoots how to act in civilized society before unleashing them in the malls. Nearly 10 years ago I vowed to never, ever again take my then-early teen girls to the Dayton Mall after what we experienced there on a Saturday night. The DM’s suspension of bus service for “safety issues” (yeah, their CUSTOMERS’ SAFETY!!) and the MB16 policy absolutely saved that mall from the fate of the Salem Mall’s. NO WAY churches – mallability for yoots is NOT a civil right!


6:34 AM, 4/14/2010

Great! Move the buses closer to the mall. Before you know it the Dayton Mall will be a gone just like the Salem Mall. Hey, why is the Salem Mall gone? I bet we all know the reason.


6:33 AM, 4/14/2010

Has anyone actually seen the mass of kids that come in on one of these buses? I don’t think you need to worry about security! As they swarm through the doors, they just block everyone. Dayton Mall use to be nice visiting but now its become a hassle when the kids are there. They spread out over the entire hall and you can’t get around them. North Dayton needs a mall of their own.


6:32 AM, 4/14/2010

Its not about the elderly or the handicapped, its about race to these “ministers”. But, the only color businessmen care about is green….and there’s nothing wrong with that. It was the same way with the Krogers on Gettysburg. If West-side ministers decide to preach the Gospel of repentance, maybe there will be changes. But, as long as they teach the Social Gospel, where they constantly make allegations of racism, don’t expect to be welcomed with open arms.


6:32 AM, 4/14/2010

AND if you move the bus stops closer to the Fairfield Mall it will create the same atmosphere and I will STOP shopping there.

Generally teenagers are not a problem but when there is a group that is it creates the impersonation that all groups of teenagers create problems.

So what is next….The Greene? It is an outside shopping area and “gangs of teenagers” don’t seem to like the open air. Sounds good to me.


6:31 AM, 4/14/2010

At once time I loved shopping at the Salem Mall then the groups of teenagers started harassing shoppers. Theft increased fighting was continuous and I stopped going. The Dayton Mall became the next place I would love to shop at.

I have NOT been inside the Dayton Mall in nearly two years because……groups of teenagers harassing shoppers. I still feel unsafe there even after they relocated the bus stops and will NOT go back.


6:27 AM, 4/14/2010

NOTICE TO OUR COUSINS IN SUBURBIA: You can no longer run or hide! This is civil rights issue #1 for Dayton in the 21st century. After the malls are integrated, the schools are next. The DPS is failing because there are not enough middle class (black and white) students attending. The only solution is to bus Dayton school children to the ‘burbs and close down the DPS. And it’s good to see Dayton’s churches getting behind this. Next should be tne NAACP and the SCLC.

Jim from Dayton

6:21 AM, 4/14/2010

Bringing bus stops to the Fairfield Commons and Dayton malls would be like putting a Third and Main situation to the malls. Who would want to go there with all those idiots showing up! If churches want the people transported, transport them yourself..

Yahoo Serious

6:02 AM, 4/14/2010

OMG, you’re right on!! Churches need to use their own buses to transport the elderly and handicapped! There’s already too much shoplifting and busing folks in will make it much worse! Fairfield and Dayton Malls, KEEP FIGHTING!! If you want to keep decent, honest, PAYING customers at your retail facility, SAY NO TO THE RTA!!!

No Way!

5:51 AM, 4/14/2010

While your at it can you run a bus up to St.Paris so I can go to the mall too?


2:56 AM, 4/14/2010

I agree, if these people want to come to the mall they will find a friend with a car or take the bus and walk a half mile. And if these people really want to shop and spend money why did they not support the salem mall an and stores in their neighborhoods instead of robbing them blind and forcing them out. Like others have said when the stops were in the back of the mall it broght nothing but trouble. Maybe people would quit robbing their local stores the business would thrive.

troy hutchinson

1:47 AM, 4/14/2010

Churches need to stay out of the politic game and stop acting like everyone will just do what they want. Bring buses to the Mall at Fairfield Commons and it will ruin a good Mall. I think all you have to do is look at the Dayton Mall bus stops. Don’t give in Beavercreek. DAYTON’S PROBLEM!!!!


1:32 AM, 4/14/2010

Keep the RTA from coming any farther into Greene Co! The last thing we need is another way for the scum of Montgomery Co to come and cause more problems. Let the Dayton mall deal with the RTA crime wave.

Big Dog

12:59 AM, 4/14/2010

The fastest way to kill a mall is to bring groups of teenagers into it. Busing facilitates groups of teenagers visiting places. We stopped visiting the Salem mall because we did not feel safe with so many groups of teenagers wandering the mall. This is not a race-based issue. Groups of teenagers, unsupervised create an atmosphere that many adults do not feel comfortable in. Not all groups of teenagers are threatening but enough are to where they cause problems. Everyones loses in this mess


11:42 PM, 4/13/2010

I feel that these “employees” that they mention are not presently working at the fairfield mall and will take jobs from the Wright State students. I also would love to see where these 18 churches are located that are asking for this equality change. Sorry Earl Hudson but there is a reason that the Gettysburg Ave area, where your church is located, does not have investors running to build near you. Hey, but Miller Lane is close and is booming with shops where bus stops are close for your clergy.


11:28 PM, 4/13/2010

I worked and shopped at the Dayton Mall when the bus stop was at the front of the mall. It was a nightmare! I remember fights, shoplifting and harassment of all sorts on a regular basis. The bus stop was moved away from the mall for a reason folks.

Aimee P

10:58 PM, 4/13/2010

People wanting buses closer to the malls ask people who live in Clayton, Vandalia, Riverside why Trotwood mall closed because of buses transporting people to the mall whom cared less about shopping and more about shoplifting, scaring off elderly people and being violent. Many people who live in the northern suburbs travel to Beavercreek Mall and shop once a month and elderly once every 3 months. Think twice before closing more malls due to busing.


10:42 PM, 4/13/2010

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