On Valentine’s day in 2007 I wrote a post that said:
we do a lousy job of clearing the streets in Dayton and there should be no excuse.
via The economic impact of snow days [1].
Of course there was more in that post, including the question of why every truck in the city wasn’t turned into a plow and every employee learning how to plow, so that we keep the economic engine running… but that’s too much like solving a problem for Dayton. We prefer to bury our heads in the snow.
On my way to hockey on Sunday night, I had to drive out the ice-covered streets in South Park to get to the main roads. In Kettering, miraculously, it was as if I’m on another planet, the side streets are clear. Hello?
Cold isn’t a reason to close school systems, unless your furnace doesn’t work. Minot ND doesn’t shut down at -10 degrees and neither should we. The economic impact of parents having to stay home to watch kids is devastating. The loss of business to every business that depends on consumers leaving their homes is also painful. The idea of “snow emergencies” where you are supposed to stay off the roads, is pure idiocy with less than a foot of snow, and even then- that’s why man invented snow plows.
I’ve got to admit, that since I wrote the post I mentioned at the beginning of this one, I’ve bought an all-wheel drive car. It does very well in this weather- but the reality is that we have no excuse for the ice rink on Bonner Street other than the misguided leadership that gave a tax break to GE but can’t plow the streets.
How are those engineers supposed to get to work to invent the transporter from Star Trek, Madame Mayor?
What people don’t realize is that having the list of closings on Cox’s websites sure does give them a lot of page views on a slow news day. It’s time to stop letting ScareCenter 7 ruin our economy. It’s time for Dayton to fire its economic development department and a few assistant city managers and hire people who can do the job the city is supposed to do- clear our streets. And, last but not least, it’s time to stop listening to “ScareCenter 7”- just because the Cox puzzle palace feeds on fear, our city shouldn’t stop doing what it’s doing.
Put layers on people, drive a little slower, and get back to work.
Cold isn’t a reason to close school systems…(David Esrati)
…why, back in my day, we used to walk five miles to school in snowdrifts four feet deep. Barefoot…
Just a quick note….in the “over-built community” of Springboro where we can’t support things that a community needs like resurfacing roads, schools, plows etc… our roads are all plowed and the schools still comparatively rock http://esrati.com/sportsplex-in-huber-heights/392/ .
I couldn’t agree more though that the schools should be open. I can’t help but think that we are raising our children to be soft and dependent. We are telling them that If its cold out or a little snowy then you shouldn’t have to get up and go to work. Ice Bandit is right…we do sound like grumpy old men and I’m okay with that. For goodness sakes the school bus has three stops on our street that is 2 tenths of a mile long!!!
I say we start a new charity. “Pucks Dayton” to give the kids something to do on their so called calamity days. I say let’s have the inaugural game on Bonner St!
“…why, back in my day, we used to walk five miles to school in snowdrifts four feet deep. Barefoot…” – Ice Bandit
… and it was uphill and I had to carry my little brother on my back!!
Joe_Mamma is right that we’re raising our children to be soft and dependent. “Back in my day” we often had a couple of weeks of sub-zero temps in the mornings and I still had to wait for the bus to show up. And I was smart enough to wear my long-johns, knit-hat, a heavy coat and gloves to make sure that I didn’t get frost bite! Also, parents weren’t allowed to drop off their kids at school as the parent traffic interfered with the bus traffic at the school. During the blizzard of ’78 I was in my last few months of a 4 year stint as a paperboy delivering the DDN (afternoon edition back then. The Journal Herald was the morning edition). I did get “two days off” (without pay since we got paid – by directly collecting from the customers on our route – based on the number of papers we delivered) since the DDN trucks couldn’t get through the roads. 4WD/AWD vehicles were not the norm back then and I remember a call for people with “Jeeps and other 4WD vehicles” to volunteer to venture out to deliver hospital and emergency personnel to their jobs. Now a large percentage of the population has 4WD/AWD vehicles and we’re told to stay off the roads because of 2″ of snow. DUMB! And what is also dumb are these stupid “reporters” that travel around the areas telling us how bad it is and to stay off the roads. On Saturday mornings I generally watch ScareCenter-7 “news” for 30-60 minutes while I drink my coffee and vegetate a little bit. I had to turn it off this past weekend as I couldn’t stand the stupidity any more. Yuna Lee was at (actually IN) the intersection at US-35 and Orchard Lane. Since she’s obviously a driving expert she was commenting on the people that were “obviously driving too fast” and doing close up shots of the snow on the road. Cars were trying to get around her without hitting her as she was pretty much in the lane of traffic. … Read more »
What baffles me is that Dayton refuse pickup is delayed because of the cold. They don’t even have to leave their trucks! Well, the recycle guys do, but what excuse do the waste drivers have? Back in Piqua they still pick up all trash by hand, and they haven’t delayed collection either today or the last time.
The Cox properties do a region a great disservice with their sensationalist, substanceless reporting. As much as people complain about channel 7, most people I know just won’t watch anything else because of perceived inferiority (and, well, none of them are any *better* than 7 for certain). The TV stations will tell you straight up that they report what they do because people watch it. If we want to stop the stupid (and live in the spirit of a supply and demand economy), the choice lies in your eyeballs. My TV’s in the basement where it’s cold, so I don’t watch it. I put all the local media in one Twitter list and patronize all the sources about equally. I get my forecast from the National Weather Service, which is about as no-nonsense as you can get.
First of all, I must say that my friend, Johnny Bowles, and I walked more than five miles every day to go to school. We did not have any of those yellow buses then.
Second, I hate Channel 7 for doing something I hate, interrupting the network news for local fluff, like the weather. They could easily run a streamer saying that they had something important that they would broadcast after the news.
Change the channel. Not that many people watch the news and they only look for specific closings that apply to them. If something is not closed people go out.
People in Dayton are too lazy to shovel their own drive ways and sidewalks. In the suburbs people do it before or after work. In Dayton they sit and look out the window and rarely work. Change that and you have solved your “plowing problem” with a deeper tax base. But people in Dayton really don’t want to work.
Also great link joe mamma. Proves Esrati is wrong and was only trying to stir shit in regards to the suburbs. Another ‘anointed’ liberal know-it-all.
Esrati was wrong. Just plain wrong. Now we will see if he is up to admitting he was wrong. Doubt it. Just tears and complaining shall follow. Remember he has a ‘very high IQ.’ Just ask the anointed one…..
Well, as much as I don’t watch Channel 7–not due to weather reporting but generally bad journalism–
it seems you all needed something to beeyotch about and you found it.
Dayton, after 2 decades of milder winter, is not prepared to cope with a sudden and we hope temporary return to pre-1970s conditions. Yes, in Minot ND they get around in this sort of stuff. When I lived in Bowling Green OH, I was awed by their snow-removal prowess. Then again, when I lived in Columbia SC, two inches of snow not only closed down schools, but also state government and shopping malls.
It inconveniences some parents, but getting a day or even a week off school isn’t going to wreck our educational progress–that’s less than 3% of the total school days. It’s easy for us to say “layer up” but many of our needier Dayton kids have nothing sturdier than athletic shoes to wear–and many live too close for school bus service–so which of you will pay the medical bills when they get frostbitten feet?
I think closing schools for subzero weather in climes where it’s now uncommon is the sort of sensible change that, like trying to reduce concussions in athletes and trying to ensure toy safety, are despised by many based on the experience “I lived through it!” Well, many do not get through it unscathed; look at the big picture.
BTW, Gene, I live in a working-class Dayton neighborhood and all our sidewalks have been shoveled. Tho’ I told my wife that I’m done this winter and any more snow can just lie there ’til spring for all I care.
Your right on David, after years of living in both Alaska and Buffalo, NY, the City of Dayton and Channel 7 knows diddly squat about snow. A frog can take a leak on the road, and Channel 7 will give a wet weather report.
you will have someone like you take care of your neighborhood and such, but overall younger people look at it and say screw it – especially in Dayton. I used to live in the same type of neighborhood – and most of the time no one ever cleared their driveways. Or walk ways…
I understand if you are too old, and granted it is super cold out, but living in Dayton for ten years showed me even when it was 30 degrees out people still avoided the shoveling. Not in Oakwood or Springboro. Only in Dayton.
The City of Centerville Municipal Code (Section 660.05) requires property owners to clear snow and ice accumulations from sidewalk “within a reasonable time, which will ordinarily not exceed 12 hours”. Property owners in the City’s downtown district and where children walk to and from school are asked to make special efforts to clear sidewalk as soon as practical.
Centerville maintains a list of volunteers who are willing to assist residents with snow shoveling or leaf raking. It’s a great way for the kids to earn community service hours, and it helps elderly or disabled people keep their walkways clear. The city also maintains a list of people that will perform these services for a fee, so residents have a choice. I don’t suppose Dayton offers any such service?
They close Dayton schools because of the cold – and kids waiting for buses in the subzero weather, buses that can run up to 30+ minutes late. I just with DPS would announce they are closing EARLIER. Having to scramble to make arrangements at 11:30pm or later when they finally announce it (other schools called it at 8pm) gives me less than 7 hours to work something out AND I have to sleep at some point, too
Sorry, but the claim that sub-zero temps are now uncommon in Dayton doesn’t stand up to facts. Since 2004 in the month of January we have averaged 2 days zero or below zero and 7 days 10 degrees or colder. You also won’t get frostbite walking a reasonable distance to school in your sneakers.
In summary….It is almost always gets very cold in Dayton Ohio in January.
So no comment from Esrati regarding the Springboro plowing comment.
The anointed one will not answer. So much for that very high IQ.
Joe-Mamma, I just checked the records for Dayton from the NWS. This year, January saw nine days with subzero temps and six more under 10 degrees. I count only 11 dates with subzero temps in January going back to 2004. http://www.erh.noaa.gov/iln/lcdpage.htm
They don’t have data handy for pre-1996, so maybe we can rely on nean and median temps. Compare the averages recently (high 30s) in Dayton Januaries to several in the 1950s (low 30s). Yes, there are exceptions (1960, 2014) but the trend is clear.
Please don’t pull numbers out of unreliable sources.
As for when frostbite can occur, this doctor says 32 degrees can do it to you under the right conditions:
http://www.nj.com/indulge/index.ssf/2014/01/warning_signs_of_frostbite_can_begin_at_32_degrees.html
and our midwest region has had rather optimal conditions recently:
http://www.wics.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_15382.shtml
So I find your assertions utterly without merit.
The one that really takes the cake though is (Channel 7’s) Layron Livingston…(Bubba Jones)
…the Old Bandito’s chance encounter with Livingston was after the Banditomobile did an unexpected 360 on a snow-filled New Lebanon parking lot. Mr. Livingston inquired if the Old Bandito would like to comment on the difficulties of navigating Ohio streets in such weather. The Old Bandito responded that he would only speak to Erica Collura, not only to share his expertise but to profess his undying admiration and love…
The one that really takes the cake though is Layron Livingston. – See more at: http://esrati.com/scarecenter-7-shuts-our-city-down-again/10800/comment-page-1/#comment-117031
I saw a city snow plow drive through the Oregon District on February 2nd. Of course, the warm temperatures and light rain had removed most of the snow and ice from the streets already, but the truck still drove down several streets with the plow blade up and no salt being spread. Being a Sunday, I’m sure the driver was getting payed extra to burn fuel as he needlessly toured the city.
I’m hopeful that the truck will come back when there is actually some snow and ice on the streets.
Dear Ducktor….either your counting or your analysis is flawed. Between Jan 2004 and Jan 2014 Dayton was treated to no less than 24 days with temperatures zero or below. I used your link….which by the way links to Columbus…so I’m not sure if that’s the problem with your analysis. I actually switched it to Dayton for mine. Even if you throw out Jan 2014…Dayton still averages 1.4 days in January below zero and 6 days 10 degrees or colder. In other words IT USUALLY GETS COLD IN DAYTON IN JANUARY!!!!
Joe_Mamma: What’s the old saying? “You are entitled to your own opinion but you’re not entitled to your own facts”? LOL! Thanks for double checking the Professor’s facts. And, the fact is that IT USUALLY GETS COLD IN DAYTON IN JANUARY!!!! LOL!
“The Old Bandito responded that he would only speak to Erica Collura, not only to share his expertise but to profess his undying admiration and love… – – The Old Bandito
Bandito – You are a dirty old man and a pig! Those are just two of the reasons that I enjoy reading the things that you post!! :)
Don’t stay away so long next time! Us regulars get worried about you!!
Joe, really, 1.6 days below zero is our average? So far this year we’ve more than doubled that. Three more days of single-digit lows coming up so that Feb. will have a head start.
Yes, I did select Dayton when looking at the NOAA website. Maybe I’ll go back and count the number of days with a high temp in the single digits–might be enlightening. I’d ask you to do it but I guess you can’t count. The bottom line is that my numbers are the accurate ones; I provided the links, I invite others to verify for themselves and take neither your nor my word for it.
“Joe, really, 1.6 days below zero is our average? So far this year we’ve more than doubled that. Three more days of single-digit lows coming up so that Feb. will have a head start.”Dear Ducktor
Yes. That is how averages work. Since the count is higher than the average this year it will raise the average. Amazing concept. Note that the 1.6 days is just January and doesn’t include the other cold months. We call this time of year winter ;) In Ohio it is often cold during this “winter”….
“ Maybe I’ll go back and count the number of days with a high temp in the single digits–might be enlightening. I’d ask you to do it but I guess you can’t count. The bottom line is that my numbers are the accurate ones; I provided the links, I invite others to verify for themselves and take neither your nor my word for it.” Dear Ducktor
Your numbers might be right but your analysis is flawed. Kids are going to school usually when it is near the low temp which is why you should ignore the high….that usually comes around 3ish in the pm.
No delayed start today…it was -3 when we headed off to school….
Here is some actual video footage of our trek into school.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqs481_the-day-after-tomorrow-clip-the-freeze_shortfilms