Kettering police Chief Chip Protsman tried to justify a murder by suggesting that Officer Jonathon McCoy was ok in spending 69 seconds telling a passenger in a car what to do at gunpoint.
It was Philando Castile all over, without the facebook live video from the driver of the car.
Kettering police officer Jonathon McCoy gave nearly 30 commands to the occupants of a gray Ford van last Sunday once he saw the front-seat passenger had a gun in his right front pocket.
What started as a traffic stop of the woman driver for not signaling while changing lanes and malfunctioning brake lights escalated into an officer firing nine shots at Jason Hoops.
Source: Officer warned suspect before fatal shooting [1]
I watched the video, and wonder where the “to serve and protect” part comes in.
Officer McCoy was on a traffic stop. He approached the car on the passenger side and started asking for license and registration. He also started asking who everyone in the vehicle is- on a traffic stop. Last I checked, police don’t have the right to start asking people why they are in a neighborhood, or what they are doing.
(added 3 Sept) Ohio is a stop and identify state [2], however, even in this case, the cop was beyond his rights:
“Stop and identify” statutes are statutory laws in the United States that authorize police to legally obtain the identification of someone whom they reasonably suspect of having committed a crime. If there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed, an individual is not required to provide identification, even in “Stop and ID” states. (end addition)
We have a fourth amendment that protects us from this kind of harassment- well, maybe not in Kettering. If you need a refresher:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Then when McCoy saw the butt of a gun sticking out of the passengers pocket he panicked and pulled his gun, pointed it at the passengers head and said “You reach for that gun, I will blow your brains out, do you (expletive) understand me?”
My question is if it is legal to carry a concealed weapon in Ohio, what gives an officer the right to pull a weapon out, point it at someones head and threaten to blow their brains out?
Police apologists will say, he was an ex-felon and didn’t have a right to have a weapon. How did Officer McCoy know Jason Hoops was a felon?
They will say that Jason didn’t comply with the orders. I can tell you from experience that when guns are pointed at you, people are screaming at you, not everyone reacts rationally or normally.
They will say they had “a signed statement from someone who said Hoops said was not going to go back to prison and “was willing to take out any cop that he had to.”” Yet, McCoy couldn’t have known that either.
And of course, the kicker, “Protsman said that what called “pipe bomb” making materials found at Hoops’ residence were still being investigated.”
So, according to Chief Protsman, “What I’ve seen in this video, I’m pretty confident in saying that this officer did a very good job on this stop,”
Excuse me? A man is dead, without judge, jury or anything but the judgement of one cop who over-reacted. If this is a “good job” he needs to find a new job.
“Stand your ground” is not for cops.
The moment Officer McCoy saw the gun, he should have said, to the driver, “can you please shut the car off, and put the keys on the roof for me” as he backed away from the vehicle, “I’m going to check something and I’ll be right back.” Going back to his cruiser, he should have asked for assistance. At no point, should he have felt threatened by a gun in the vehicle, or in the pocket of a passenger. At no time, should he have pulled his weapon and pointed it at someone, it was a traffic stop. Mr. Hoops didn’t have a warrant, wasn’t suspected of committing a violent crime, he was a passenger in the car of a bad driver.
How big a threat was Hoops? Watch the woman walk into her house from the car with her dog. Did she seem scared? The driver pleads to Officer McCoy “please don’t do that” after McCoy says he’ll blow Hoops brains out. She wants to get out of the car- before he goes full Sgt. York on Hoops. Can you blame her? Obviously she understands she’s in danger with a rabid cop- and that bullets go through bodies.
Instead, because Officer McCoy was poorly trained, scared and over-reacted, we have a dead citizen. Even if Hoops had the gun in his hands, if he hadn’t pointed it at anyone, he wasn’t a threat when the officer came to the car. Hell, McCoy has to ask the rear seat passenger after unloading his weapon on Hoops- if the gun was real. So, toy guns in your pocket is a threat too? Did anyone study the Tamir Rice shooting? Another case where the cops could have stayed out of harms way and deescalated the situation.
““We know there was a physical confrontation where the officer reached in and grabbed hold of Mr. Hoops’ right arm, trying to stop him from reaching down towards the gun,” Protsman said. “This continues for a little bit.” Did Protsman, or McCoy learn anything from the Samuel Dubose murder in Cincinnati- that officers don’t reach into vehicles? Experts testified that this is a dangerous move by an officer. Why didn’t McCoy back away, and seek cover?
Because McCoy shouldn’t be a police officer.
Chief Protsman shouldn’t be defending McCoy’s actions. And, the investigation of officer shootings should no longer be trusted to local authorities. It’s time for a federal investigation team, similar to what happens when a plane crashes. Bring professional, unbiased, detectives to discern the facts from the fiction. This is the proposal being made by the parents of man killed by a cop in Kenosha Wisconsin.
When a plane crashes, experts pick through the wreckage to determine the cause and make recommendations to prevent the next accident. The process is so effective that for the last several years, the death rate from crashes of American commercial planes has been zero. But no comparable system exists in policing — and that may help explain why you are far more likely to die at the hands of a cop than to perish in an plane crash. Police officers in the United States now kill about 1,000 people and wound more than 50,000 every year.
Of course, no independent team arrived to perform a forensic analysis of the younger Mr. Bell’s death. Instead, the Kenosha police department spent two days investigating its own officers before ruling that the shooting was justified.
Source: Why Are Police Officers More Dangerous Than Airplanes? – The New York Times [3]
Even the way the Dayton Daily news frames this story, it’s as if the cop had a right to pull his weapon on a traffic stop. Have we forgotten the shooting of Walter Scott in North Charleston N.C. where Officer Michael Slager might have gotten away with murder if not for a passerby video taping him shoot Scott in the back.
If you don’t think this pattern is getting out of hand, you aren’t paying attention.
If McCoy is the kind of cop Kettering and Protsman want to defend, I retract all my statements about Kettering being the best run community in the region.
If this is “to serve and protect” we’re safer without police.
Obviously David Esrati has struck a nerve with this article….. keep up the fine work Mr Esrati. Someone has to do it!
A) Assassination is a killing that is planned and executed for political purposes. I am pretty sure Mr. Hoops was not shot because he voted for the wrong person or any other political ideology. Your rhetoric is pretty horrible. B) Police can ask for any identification from anybody they want, but you don’t have to legally give it to them unless they suspect you of criminal activity. Had Mr. Hoops simply refused to talk and crossed his arms, he would be alive today and very well-off from a lawsuit if the officer had pressed the matter and arrested him. C) Carrying of a weapon in a vehicle in Michigan requires a permit which the officer, if he didn’t already, has all the legal power needed to, at minimum, put you in cuffs and figure out why you have a gun hanging out of your pocket. The officer also has plenty of experience with legal gun owners, and his experience will come into play with his reasonableness in a court. Regardless, I am sure Mr. Hoops would rather be alive today than know in death that some random useless blogger like myself and you are talking about his death. He should have complied and dealt with it in courts later. D) Although people do react differently to stressful situations, one thing you should not do, especially when ordered at gunpoint, is reach for a weapon that the officer knows you have. You can say he was confused, maybe drug induced, emotional…… none of that will matter. And if that is the case, that is unfortunate, but the outcome was dictated by the actions of Mr. Hoops, not the officer. E) The police never have the duty to serve and protect, although their actions often create that outcome. For example, when they arrest a habitual burglar that puts an end to their spree or other life-long criminals that are then removed from the streets. One could argue that this felon with a gun might just be another such case. I will agree that a lot of what they do is not protect… Read more »
I can’t believe people still read articles from this stupid fucking news “source”. It’s up there with Vice, Vox, and BuzzFeed. I hope McCoy is free and still serving to this day. One less scumbag in the streets. The man who was shot literally said that he’d rather die than to back to jail and would kill any cop before he died
“I can tell you from experience that when guns are pointed at you, people are screaming at you, not everyone reacts rationally or normally.” –If you cannot act rationally and normally you have no business carrying a gun!
David esrati go back to burger flipping at mcdonalds
I knew jason hoops personally and if that unprofessional cop would have just backed away and deescalated the situation jason would be alive and said officer wouldn’t have to answer to god for his poor judgment.. Rest In Peace jason!!!
Understand the facts… you weren’t there. A cop as .000001 to make a judgement call. This guy even admitted, through a witness in a sworn statement, he was going to take out cops if it came down to it. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
I hope the last thing to go through Jason Hopps brain other than those bullets is “oh I fucked up”. As the life drained out of his body along with brain matter, I sleep better at night knowing he died in immense pain and suffering. Saving our society from this sub human is the best thing to happen to in a long time.
Whoever wrote this article should stop spreading their opinion, mainly because they have no idea what they claim as fact or have the conviction to believe they should spread their facts to others. 1. The cop had the right to request identification of everyone in the vehicle becusss whether you realize it or not, a traffic infraction is a criminal offense, which gives probable cause. Either way, officers have the right to request identification from passengers in a vehicle regardless if that specific passenger has committed a crime. On top of that, if you have a legal firearm, to conceal it you have to have a CCW, and even if you don’t and it’s required to let an officer know that you have a firearm in your possession and where it is. “How did he know the guy was a felon?” It doesn’t matter. He should’ve immediately told the officer he had a firearm and it shouldn’t of been concealed. He also lied about his name, which is further probable cause. Then he doesn’t comply with officer instructions, and reaches for his gun after the officer told him he would shoot him if he tried to reach for his gun. But you are correct, I’m sure the fact that the officer reached into the car to stop someone from pulling out their gun and shooting him is what caused the criminal to try and pull his illegal gun out and try to shoot the cop. You have no idea what you are talking about, and I hope nobody that reads your website takes this garbage seriously. I really am hoping you reconsider why you wrote this drivel, and how you form your opinions; to look into more case law and legitimate facts when forming opinions. Sounds to me like you just don’t like authority, and examine a situation without contextual analyses to badmouth any LEO. Garbage like this gets good cops killed, for no reason other than people like you spreading fear which gets people to believe cops want to do nothing but kill them and abuse their power. I’d… Read more »
To the idiot”Notallcopsarelikeyou” – it’s pretty obvious who wrote the article- and before you play lawyer- look things up:
https://www.thenewspaper.com/news/66/6629.asp
Nope- cops can’t just ask passengers for their papers- this isn’t Germany.
And, yes, legal firearm CCW permit holders have to identify that they have a weapon. This has nothing to do with an x-con doing the same.
Minor traffic stops turning into assasinations by cop/judge/jury/executioner should scare the hell out of all of us.
The guy who wrote this is just dumb. Wish he was in the rear seat and ran his mouth.. Your bullshit perspective on this will encourage this behavior. I bet you dont carry, i bet you do what is asked of you when stopped by a cop or a thief. You are a coward, dont cry for help when they want your wallet. Im ready to kick your candy ass.
Whoever is the writer of this needs to learn the real meaning of serve and protect! The Officer and many others did their job correctly. Lol at their training manuals. They are taught to shoot to kill yet Officer McCoy had chosen a more dangerous action by attempting to disarm hoops by equal force while doing his best to spare the kids life. With ignorance from people like the author and those siding against Officer McCoy shows that you truly are uneducated. Take some time and read the laws that officers need to follow and you’ll see that McCoy is a good guy that was only doing his job that was a basic traffic stop until hoops decided to put everyone’s life at risk with no care of those he was with, so if he wanted a gd life then he shouldn’t have had the weapon for starters and should have put his hands up and it would have been done. They would have looked up the code to the gun to be sure it was his and that he could carry it. If it worked out they would have apologized and returned it to hoops. With his circumstance though he was a felon and would have been arrested regardless since he cannot be near one let alone carry firearm!
Um… you do realize that making an illegal lane change and having non-functioning brake lights is a crime… right? If there is a law, and you break or ignore that law, that is automatically a crime. Therefore, regardless of what State, what County, or what City the traffic stop is taking place in, the Officer is completely justified in collecting identification and insurance information. And because the illegal driving is a crime, on what is now a crime scene, the officer is also justified in asking where the occupants of the car were heading and what they were originally doing in the neighborhood. That fourth amendment you so willingly quoted also does not apply in its entirety to those who have committed a crime. Chimel vs California case law States that an Officer of the Law does not need a warrant to search any area a suspect has control of– this includes the cab of a car. The Officer also had a right to “reach for his own firearm and threaten to shoot” because the gun was in the possession of what is now a criminal thanks to an illegal lane change, non-functioning brake lights, and refusing to comply with lawfully given orders. The perp lost his rights to carry that gun when he became a criminal. At that point, the perp is potentially dangerous to both the Officer and his Passengers. A gun in the waistband is not a safe weapon. Anyone is capable of swiftly drawing that firearm and shooting at anyone he chooses. Therefore, the Officer should not have returned to his cruiser to wait for backup, as the suspect with the gun is now a criminal and criminals do stupid, desperate things– particularly ones who do not want to go back to prison after just getting out. I could continue on and pick apart the rest of this article, but quite honestly my time is more valuable than yours. All I’m going to say is that people like you are what’s wrong with the United States, and if I had my way I’d castrate the lot… Read more »
If you have a legal gun license you know that the first thing you’re supposed to do is tell police “I have a carry permit and I am armed.”. Then you follw commands . A cop is not going to deal with multiple people by him/herself,they will wait for back up. Mr. Hoops never even tells the cop he is armed. As usual you jump to the worst possible conclusion.
This has got be one of the most braindead post I’ve read. I watched the dashcam the officer was 100% in the right.
This so called writer obviously has too much time on his hands and has never been a police officer. Go crawl back into whatever hole you came out of useless vermin!
You go with him whomever you are Robert K
It’s fortunate the idiot is dead. One less mouth to feed in prison with my tax dollars!
I honestly have no idea how the author of this article has survived as long as he has with such a lack of common sense. It’s just mind boggling. As a person with a concealed carry permit, I would expect the exact same reaction from a police officer if I had the butt of my gun sticking out of my pocket. There’s no excuse for not following the officers orders to put his hands on the dash and not grab for the gun. The stress of the situation is a ridiculous excuse. If a cop is yelling at you to do something, you do it. Every one of the Authors viewpoints are nonsense. It sounds like excuses my kid would make to get out of trouble. Grasping at straws to make a nonsensical argument.
Jason Hoops died because of Jason Hoops.. end of story.
First off don’t think the cop overreacted. Maybe when he said I’ll blow your brains out, may have been an overreaction with wording. However unless you’ve been placed in a situation where you see a gun that can be used against you, and you have no training nor have you ever remotely been placed in a situation like that you should never Monday morning quarterback. Meaning keep your stupid ideas of how to handle a high risk threatening situation to yourself. To see a firearm and simply walk away from the traffic stop is absurd and against all police training. How do you know Mr hoops didn’t kidnap the driver of the car and was forcing her to drive somewhere and you simply walk away to turn it into a hostage situation just throwing out a scenario. If that officer doesn’t pull his gun out Mr hoops could pull his gun and shoot the officer dead before he even has a chance to get his own gun out. Mr hoops was given numerous opportunities to surrender himself which clearly he had no intention of doing. I strongly believe no police officer comes to work hoping to kill somebody. As much of an anti-cop you want to be that officer just wants to go home at the end of his shift and if some idiot wants to possess an illegal firearm and not follow orders to surrender himself there’s a strong possibility the police officer might defend themselves because they want to go home. In closing I think it’s safe to say Mr hoops wasn’t possessing a pistol for legitimate reasons.
You’re a f***ing moron who has no clue what he’s talking about. I don’t even want to pick apart your article. It’s too f***ing stupid to even argue about. Do society a favor and just die.