From Bill Pote and Dayton MostMetro – an event!
Dayton MostMetro.com – Dayton Topics [1]
Kyle Ezell is the founder of Get Urban, Ltd. and is so passionate about city living that he has written two books on the subject:
Get Urban! The Complete Guide to City Living
and
Retire Downtown: The Lifestyle Destination for Active Retirees and Empty Nesters.Kyle is a certified city planner, instructor of downtown housing at Ohio StateRetiredowntown_2 University, and since 2005 has been a keynote speaker on the topic of urban living in cities all over the country – including San Francisco, Chicago, Columbus and more. He has organized “Ruppie” parties to help attract active suburban empty nesters to downtown neighborhoods (we have several Ruppies here in Downtown Dayton). And he has been featured in the Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal, Cool Town Studios, Columbus RetroMetro and yes – here on MostMetro.com.
On Thursday, October 4th – we will be throwing a Get Urban Miami Valley party at the Top of the Market (starting at 5:30pm). This is a free event – so come out and check out exactly why us urban dwellers simply love our urban lifestyle. Who knows, you could become our neighbor very soon!
Something to get the urbanites together…. maybe a cash bar too?
David – thanks for the mention – and yes, there will be a cash bar. We’re doing something different to get some more people excited about urban living (just in time for Rehabarama in South Park), and after speaking with Kyle we’re thrilled to have him here to give his fun talk on the joys of living urban… and some tips on “how” to live urban for our urban-curious folks out there. We hope you and your readers can come join the party. We’ll have an online rsvp page on MostMetro.com this weekend, so check back soon.
Sweet….schedule allows be there or be square?
David,
Maybe I missed it in a former post, but I would like to get your take on the city’s inability to provide affordable downtown living to the younger “creative class.” I can’t be the only one who can’t afford $800-$1,000/mo. for a loft! I love the city, I work in the city … and make less than I made seven years ago. Ergo I’m living in a dinky apt. in Kettering. Why are we fighting so hard to bring the empty nesters downtown without giving the same attention to (for lack of better term) Gen X? Forgive me if it’s hard to get jazzed about more downtown living space for rich people.
Melissa-
There are inexpensive options in the ring neighborhoods, and the St.Clair Lofts started out rather reasonable (right across from Pearl). Unfortunately, the economics of living single aren’t good anywhere- it’s a world made for couples or communes.
I agree that we need more flexible options- I know there are people living in the Front Street Art complex- and living cheap with the city turning a blind eye- but that is the only one I know of offering the REAL loft experience.
Melissa is really on to something in terms of affordability and demographics, perhaps. She is not the only one from whom I’ve heard that complaint.
Melissa – in addition to the St. Clair Lofts, the Eva Felman apartments at Second & Jefferson are very inexpensive. The building changed hands a year ago and the new owners have done a nice job on renovating the units as well as the lobby. There are the First Place apartments on First Street just west of Main – I’m not sure how expensive those are but they do have some one-bedroom units. Also, there are several options in the Oregon District, with small second floor apartments on Fifth Street and various rentals in the neighborhood. And if you want an urban feel just outside of downtown, South Park is a great place and has several small houses perfect for singles.
In terms of affordable rent for 1 person Downtown is unapproachable. There are a handful of nice rentals (Sinclair, Cannery, Landing) but all are in the ranges Melissa said perfectly doable on dual incomes, but not going at it alone. Parking needs to be considered. The suburbs offer cheaper options, but gas isn’t getting cheaper. Where do you buy groceries if you live downtown? The newer Walmart near Golden Nugget or Scary Kroger?
David-
What is this about: Front Street Art complex? Is that a tongue in cheek remark or is there legit living space for rent there?
The Front Street art complex- exists. People live there- there is no occupancy permit for living there.
It’s the closest thing to true loft living in Dayton.
Hmm, let’s see, minimum rent for St. Clair lofts is like $550/month for a 1 br 1 bath, plus $250 security deposit and optional $50/month secure parking. (plus whatever utilities and application fees) St. Clair lofts has lots of great amenities and is within walking distance of some of my favorite places in the whole region.
Is there any place with similar amenities? Or a place with fewer amenities but is nice but a bit more affordable.
But yeah, sorry, as much as I love downtown, I just can’t afford that on my salary.
From what I have experienced, this is the NUMBER ONE reason people chose not to locate downtown (for people that WANT to live downtown.) These places are too expensive to the younger professionals, or most Daytonians for that matter. I can’t blame the renters, they do need to make money on the investments.
If anyone knows, what are the occupancy rates at the locations – FULL? Half full?
From what David is saying Front Street is a true loft concept, as in how loft living started up in NYC back in the olden days..they were essentially squats in artists lofts.
There was a thread on this at Urban Ohio, about the proposed “Canal Block” developement at Patterson and First, where the developer was wanting to market the condos there to lower price points
One of the things about having a mostly single early career/younger crowd downtown is that will be the driver for more of a scene, such as restaurants and nightlife, which wold make for a livelier city.
Another obvious market would be the gay community, as nearly all the bars are downtown anyway. In Dayton this is not a particularly affluent community (contrary to stereotype), yet they are one of the few demographics in this area who are not “afraid” of coming downtown, and are already familiar with the place, though they may not live there.
However, given how homophobic this community is, you won’t be seeing any outreach/marketing to gays and lesbians anytime soon.
We should be marketing to gay/lesbian communities – what we need is life and activity, art and music, food and drink, not borders or boundaries.
Getting back to the original post – perhaps if developers knew that more people wanted to live in urban neighborhoods then we’d see more diverse development. Our Get Urban event is something to help get people excited about urban living and maybe convince a few to actually make the move. Perhaps as more people choose to live in urban neighborhoods where they can walk to stores and restaurants, socialize with their neighbors, and experience diversity (in every sense of the word) – maybe more developers will choose to rehab and infill in the city, and we can see our city grow and become the city everybody wishes it was.
“Getting Urban” does not necessarily mean living in the Downtown Central Business District. Dayton has over a dozen different historic districts, not even including the CBD. They are ALL urban neighborhoods. And most of them are very affordable, especially considering the amazing architecture that can be found.
As for the CBD, I realize that many residential units in downtown are more expensive than many people can afford (by the way, out of curiosity how much money for rent would you all say IS affordable?). But it is typically more expensive in EVERY successful downtown in the country/world than it is in Dayton. Is rent that much cheaper than $550 in the burbs?
As far as pricing goes downtown is a bit higher but I really haven’t seen much of a difference. In fact I lived at Windsor Place Apts in Fairborn/Beavercreek (off of Zink Rd) 2br for $630 plus utilities. The Metropolitan 2 br (far more sq footage) was I think $650 with all utilities paid. At both places my car got broken into and my CD player stolen!
I am currently looking for a studio loft for around $400 range with all utilities. My expected move in date is November. I have found the prices about the same from the suburbs to downtown; all less expensive than living on campus at Wright State but thats another issue.
The problem with most apartment complexes, as Mike said, they are much more affordable on dual incomes. You get a far better deal on a two bedroom place with a roommate. If there is anyone out there looking I wouldn’t mind the cannery or st. clair lofts or anywhere else downtown. [email protected]
The affordability question is pretty subjective. I’ve read that “affordable” should be housing costs around 30% of ones income (this is what the MVRPC uses in some of their studies). So it depends on income, and also how much one is willing to spend.
“But it is typically more expensive in EVERY successful downtown in the country/world than it is in Dayton. Is rent that much cheaper than $550 in the burbs?”
We need to start with younger people in mind, first and foremost. We want to grow/build/rehab.
Are we not trying to make Downtown successful? Higher rent doesn’t help. It also does not attract younger, more vibrant people. We need more people, more culture, more diversity – not higher prices. I think $450/person is reasonable, but $500 plus is the point where younger people stay with mom and dad/ room many in one house, etc. That does not help the Downtown area. $550 – $650 IS typical for the ‘burbs, up and up after that price point. But is it not the idea to attract as many PEOPLE as we can, professionals and non professionals, younger and single? That is how a city becomes “vibrant.” A city is stale rent too high for younger people. And please do not compare Dayton to major cities, look at the likes of Grand Rapids, Louisville, Omaha, Madison, etc…………Not Chicago, NY, Boston and LA. (Not that anybody has done that here, but too often I hear this out in public.)