Comments on: The Dayton Process- is anyone else doing this?

By: Will Brooks

Will Brooks — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:49:41 +0000

I agree with ideals from both prominent parties and disagree with others. I can say that I feel that both parties have failed the people they claim to represent. Also, just because political parties seem to come with the territory that doesn’t meant that they should not be questioned, exposed, and called on the carpet when they FAIL.

By: Jeff Wellbaum

Jeff Wellbaum — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:56:17 +0000

There were no political parties until the 1790’s. The political parties developed around Jefferson and Madison-the Democratic Republicans and around Hamilton-the Federalists. They began to form even before that during the debate over the ratification of the Constitution (1787-1789) between the Federalists and Anti-Federalists.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:40:29 +0000

^
Because “parties” come with representative democracy. There was maybe one period in our history that didn’t have partisan politics, the “Era of Good Feelings”after the War of 1812. Even in times and places of supposedly one party rule, like the “Solid South” of the Jim Crow era there was political conflict between two factions of the Democratic Party down there, between the elite “Bourbon Democrats” and the populist Democrats (the movie Oh Brother Where Art Thou has this as one of it’s themes).
So its part of our political culture. “Democrat” and “Republican” are just labels for something that has been going on since the time of Jefferson and the first Adams.

By: Will Brooks

Will Brooks — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:11:57 +0000

Why are you guys so caught up in political parties?

By: Jeff

Jeff — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:34:51 +0000

^
Excellent point. It would be fascinating to do an time series starting with, say, the Kennedy/Nixon election for all those counties and then check if there are any trends or divergences.

By: Gary Staiger

Gary Staiger — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:29:21 +0000

@Jeff,

To make your graph more relevant the numbers need be compared with the last 30-40 years of elections to see whether this is a + or – trend. Stand alone numbers don’t do that.

It’s that context thing again…

By: Jeff

Jeff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:18:02 +0000

^
Look at the point spread of Obama vs McCain compared to other counties with central cities in both Ohio and reigonally and you will see, by comparison, how GOP Montgomery County really is, even if Obama won. Graphs can be found here:
http://daytonology.blogspot.com/2009/04/corrections-to-graphs-in-tea-party-post.html

By: Jennifer Alexander

Jennifer Alexander — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:51:14 +0000

@Gary, need to take into consideration the “Limbaugh effect” with those that switched parties during the primaries in 2008, when you get those #’s from BOE

@Jeff, 2008 Montgomery County, Obama 146,000 McCain 128,681 I don’t think that supports your theory this county is “at heart, a Republican one”

By: Jeff

Jeff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:14:14 +0000

What evidence do you have of this besides your own observations?

Because the Democrats can’t win in suburban areas that don’t have substantial black populations, which tells me that this county is, at heart, a Republican one. This is quit different from a city like Louisville, where Democrats hold metro council seats and state rep and state senate seats in suburban areas that are also majority white. The only time the Democrats are competetive in these suburban areas in Dayton are when there is enough of a minority population to provide skew the voting. Otherwise the Democrats are not competetive in suburbia (one would expect to see more Democrats from places like, say, Huber Heights, but they seem to elect right wingers and Republicans to local and state office).
This would work countywide, since the minority voting bloc combined with union and union retiree support allows the Dems to barely control the countywide offices (and win by a few % points in Presidential elections). It’s pretty well known that union affliation skews voter preference to the Democrats.

You could say the same thing for the city, too, since Daytonians elected and re-elected a conservative Republican as mayor and apparently have done so again (though Leitzel has eschewed party labels). I think this is maybe an “Ohio Thang”, where big citys elect Republicans as mayors (like Voinovich in Cleveland) . Fairly rare in California or places like Chicago or Milwaulkee or Detroit.

Also, when did Dayton become your “conservative sociopolitical environment”

When? Ever since I moved here from California.

By: Gary Staiger

Gary Staiger — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:08:54 +0000

McLins’ defeat, and the usually dismal performance of the Democrats here, shows how weak this county is for the party,

What is this statement based on? Gary Leitzel beat McLin by less than 900 votes. Democrats hold virtually every other elected office in Dayton & the County and, many seats in the ‘burbs.Your phrase “usually dismal performance” sounds rather hyperbolic as well, as it is not supported in your post by either facts or anecdotal evidence. I would dispute your characterization of what you call New Class/Creative Class [whatever that means] as trending toward conservatism. What empirical evidence is this statement based on, or is it simply your own personal observations?

Most of the people who would be Democrats are leaving town, either because they can’t find work, or they don’t like living in this conservative sociopolitical environment

Another hyperbolic statement. What evidence do you have of this besides your own observations? Also, when did Dayton become your “conservative sociopolitical environment” ? I’ve contacted the Board of Electiosn for specific numbers of gains or losses for both parties over the last 5 years and the total registered with each party which I will post as soon as received.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:17:00 +0000

McLins’ defeat, and the usually dismal performance of the Democrats here, shows how weak this county is for the party, that the trend seems more towards the GOP as the Dem’s traditional power base of labor and minorities has weakened, and a notional new base in the “New Class/Creative Class” is unlikely, since this base in Dayton is actually more oriented toward various strands of conservatism than it is toward progessive/liberal politics. That’s one thing that sets Dayton apart from other places I’ve lived in.

You have the opposite trend in a city like Columbus, where the Democratic party is becoming stronger as it attracts more and more college educated professionals, or in Louisville, where the “Gary Leitzels”, the neighborhood activists and house restorers, tend to be left/liberals who, in some cases (like their current Congressman John Yarmuth), have moved away from the GOP.

I don’t see much long term future for the Democrats here. Most of the people who would be Democrats are leaving town, either because they can’t find work, or they don’t like living in this conservative sociopolitical environment (and, yes,I know there is Yellow Springs) and head out of Dodge as soon as they get their college degree.

By: David Esrati

David Esrati — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:22:43 +0000

@Gary S.- unlike you, I have no interest in the MCDP as it stands- I've brought up the reduction of seats- which no one else has- or was aware of.

I don't have time to organize 360 people - what I have time to do is to make sure that there is the best qualified and capable person in Matt Joseph and Dean Lovelace's seats come 2012.

One thing at a time. I'm pretty sure the State party- and the Governor will come and put pressure on the hacks running the party right now- they need this county- and if Mark and Nan and Karl can't deliver for Ted- he'll find someone who can. He can't afford a botched campaign like what they did for Rhine.

By: Gary Staiger

Gary Staiger — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:00:04 +0000

Now the ego comes out.

The MCDP will either adapt- or die- thanks to this process.
That’s how I plan on leading the reformation.

Answer the question, David, are you trying to “reform”, work within, or, are you planning a coup d’etat on the MCDP? Do you have a plan to address the reduction of seats of the MCDP Central Committee/precinct captains? Which offices are you going to encourage your acolytes to run for? Precinct captains in a gubernatorial year? Priority boards?

By: Jennifer Alexander

Jennifer Alexander — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:51:37 +0000

well boys…don’t mean to interupt, although you were providing this bored housewife an interesting afternoon…below is how the “progressives” do it….worth looking at to expand on

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/nightschool

DFA Night School is our online training program that allows anyone to learn the skills to win from their own home. Each session is an interactive conference call and web presentation where trainees participate and ask questions. Featuring expert trainers, topics range from Volunteer Recruitment to Framing a Message to Fundraising to Online Media.
Each session lasts just an hour, is packed with important skills and is completely free. You can view past presentations below to watch at your convenience. DVD versions are also available for purchase at the Training Store.

By: David Esrati

David Esrati — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:38:45 +0000

@GAry S.

The Dayton Process™ is open to anyone who wants to participate. They can also take out petitions and run on their own- I don't have any control over who runs, or doesn't run.

The MCDP will either adapt- or die- thanks to this process. That's how I plan on leading the reformation.

It's called democracy- with a small d. It's what you keep claiming to be- as long as everyone thinks like you, Sherrod Brown and Dennis Kucinich.

(and note to David L. to get the ™ use the Omega button in the comment tool bar- it gives you access to glyphs).

By: Gene

Gene — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:35:10 +0000

In other words Gary is not open minded, he misrepresents himself as someone who includes different viewpoints, and is basically a hypocrite.

No one wants Nazis or the KKK involved. Lets not blow this out of proportion. But if you want progress you must allow varying opinions, and whoever shows up is allowed to express their opinion, regardless of how disgusting that opinion may be, so long as they do it peacefully and within the law.

We basically have TWO parties – 300 million people, I think we can all agree that there are more than two opinions (and “party” ideas) so we need people to participate. Thy problem is these two parties have all the power. We actually need more parties and broader thinking, not a two party “I am against whatever the other one says” mentality. That is why a modified libertarian stand points needs to be represented. Among other ideas…

By: Gary Staiger

Gary Staiger — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:04:26 +0000

@David L
There is no way that integrity can be defined as allowing Klansmen and Nazi’s to “participate in the process like anyone else, listen to what they say, criticize it if necessary, and let people make up their minds.”

That’s sinking way down to gene’s level of inanity.

My point, my straw man argument is simple. Why should people who have a progressive/liberal viewpoint want to encourage, help, aid and abet people on the other side of the political spectrum when those folks already have their own process? Vetting by Rush and Glenn Beck, the rah rah from the Faux News network, money, and lots of it, from right wing think tanks and philanthropists.

I agree with the idea that we need to be thinking outside the box. But, and it a big one, that also has to mean not reaching for the political rubbish that may have gotten dumped out in the process of overturning that box, and that is exactly what it sounds like the Dayton Process is willing to do.

By: Gene

Gene — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:51:48 +0000

DL, now that is “liberal” talk I like to hear.

Everyone is welcome. We know who the “players” are, and a Nazi/KKK representation is far fetched at best. But EVERYONE should be “somewhat” welcome.

I actually like Dayton Progress. Especially is Gary hates it….

By: David Lauri

David Lauri — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:46:27 +0000

How about the ones who come to you with their hoods and robes neatly ironed, crosses in hand

Bless your heart, Gary, but that’s a straw man argument if ever there was one. David says anyone’s welcome to participate in the Dayton Process ™ and that means he must be ready to cozy up with the KKK and the Nazis?

Do you really suppose neo-Nazis and folks from the Klan are going to be lining up on Bonner Street to get into the Dayton Process ™ sessions?

And so what if they do? If we have any integrity, we’ll let them participate in the process like anyone else, listen to what they say, criticize it if necessary, and let people make up their minds.

By: Gene

Gene — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:46:08 +0000

What is BS? You selling non-essential items to poor people?

Wake up and smell the coffee. You are a part of the problem. You need to pay more in taxes and leave other productive people alone with all your tax loving policies…..