Dayton Grassroots Daily Show v.17 : Race relations in Dayton
Interesting letter to the editor in the Dayton City Paper about the Dunbar/Fairmont basketball game and some racist little suburban kids. Well written, from a Kettering parent of a Fairmont cheerleader. Thank you Yvette Williams for speaking out.
I’ve got a PDF of it for you to read, since the DCP doesn’t have a proper web site:DCP letter 120909.pg18
I’ve tried to have a discussion about race and our community- with the post about “The White City” but it devolved into a discussion about gay rights in the comments.
Here, Greg and I talk about the race issue- and what YOU can do about it in this community, starting today:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5NBee3PJCI[/youtube]We welcome your thoughts.
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Nice show today. The topic of racism seems so taboo in our society, no one is willing to talk about it. Let me correct that; the only people willing to talk about it are those with racist ideaology. They think they are right in their beliefs. People say things in front of me (because I’m white) that I don’t think they’d say if they were in the company of non-whites and I often times have to speak up. There is no excuse for such beliefs.
We live in Miamisburg and when our football team hosted Bellbrook, there were a lot of racial comments made. I am so PROUD of our Miamisburg kids though. Many stood up for what was right and told those Bellbrook kids where to stick it among other things.
I would like to note tha Oakwood DOES have people living there who aren’t white. I see them walk past my mom’s house on their way to the park in the warm weather. And all the kids there seem to get along just fine. In fact, a recent article indicated that wealthier, more educated populations are also more tolerant. My Appalacian Grandma-in-law told me something once that really rung true. She told me that the reason the poor whites were so racist is because they needed to make their own social standing seem better. They knew the were ‘the bottom rung’ and so they were interested in keeping black people below them. I’m sure I didn’t say that as well as she did, but hopefully you get the idea.
It would be so wonderful if we could all talk about race and destroy it through truth and understanding.
The link Greg posted in the bottom of this thread
http://esrati.com/?p=3859&cpage=1#comments
is probably relevant here too. Do you think it is really racism that motivated flight to the suburbs, or the incentives about getting a child into a ‘good’ school? Which came first? Were the urban neighbourhoods really that integrated to begin with?
Greg mentioned ‘discipline in the schools’, but that doesn’t change hearts, appealing to someone’s conscience does. It’s hard to appeal to the conscience in a case like this though, when ‘the other’ has been so firmly established (ie those kids can probably go days without interacting in any meaningful way with a non-white person). In a situation like that it’s hard to get the person to recognize the other’s humanity.
What does ‘Hey Kool-Aid’ mean? That might just be some inane thing some kids thought was funny, the others do seem to be racial (though I think the fried chicken slur is a northern/midwestern thing, down south everybody likes fried chicken).
So Fairmont students say racial slurs and…………….Oakwood is not progressive? Greg, what did Oakwood ever do to you?
And you state that they don’t have any black people in the school? Can you prove that?
I say there have been a few black, Hispanic, Jewish, Indian, Syrian, Canadians, and even some stupid liberal people that have gone to school there.
BTW, Dayton has the absolute most racist people in the county. Grow up.
The first hurdle that some of you haven’t cleared yet is to stop referring to others – regardless of whatever level of melanin they possess – as a monolith.
Drexel Dave:
Referring to ‘the other’ is pointing out the flaw in the racist’s thinking. Ignoring that this de-humanizing thought process occurs won’t fix anything. ‘The other’ doesn’t have to be about race either. It can be about social class or gender or religion.
There’s a fundamental similarity with all of those, as soon as someone classifies people as ‘other’ due to one of those things they stop recognizing the group’s humanity, and it becomes easier to rationalize indifference to their condition (that’s why we try to dehuminize the enemy in war, so soldiers can kill more easily). Pointing out the humanity of the ‘other’ to the person who thinks in terms of those monoliths is the first step to fixing things, that’s why I included the point about those kids not knowing any ‘others’ (to those kids, that concept is real, even if you don’t think it should be). If you personally know someone from that ‘other’ group, it’s a whole lot harder to dehumanize them in your thinking, because you recognize their humanity, that they are a unique person and not a ‘class’, and that maybe that ‘class’ isn’t a very meaningful way to describe people. Without that first-hand knowledge though, I fear ‘the other’ tends to remain in our thoughts (even if we don’t trot it out in polite company).
Ah, you are speaking to the choir (at least to me). The cultural anthropology concept of “the other” is well rooted in Dayton (and America for that matter), and IS the root of the problem.
“To label me is to negate me.” – Soren Kierkegaard
to label…. is what we do…. can be good…. can be bad.
george cloney said it is “easier” – in his new movie that is.
i will label. dayton folfk are down on themselves…………. ‘dat be true
And that means that you will label, and that you believe the the members of the population of Dayton, Ohio are down on themselves. Good for you.
I just said “I WILL LABEL!” – as a joke.
And I did.
I label you DDS. Not too hard…. just like you label me. Good day!
The only label I have for you is Gene.
or “Perfect”… just like Kurt Hening…or was it Curt?
I guess Greg can’t defend his comments re: Oakwood. But I guess he would know Oakwood better than most people, after all he works for Oakwood people.
What do Oakwood people call Fairmont grads?
THE HELP
I was in the L.A. riots in 92. Let me say that this isn’t a problem that is peculiar to Dayton. Cultural awareness is something that should be taught at home. Unfortunately, racism is learned at home instead of awareness. You guys make a good point about no one saying anything to those boneheads. Someone should have pulled those guys aside and layed into them. That it didn’t happen is a sad commentary on the community.
@Gene – racism is mild in Dayton compared to Los Angeles. I’ve never lived in a city more divided by race than L.A. I mean there is a lot of tension there.
I predicted the L.A. Riots in ’90. Anyone listening to hip-hop at the time could have done the same though.
Gene I really love it! I will respond three ways.
1. Just as Mike Ruetschle indicated in this comment most Oakwoodites would not hire me as the help as I would end up running their business better than themselves and it would upset their world as Primogeniture kicks in. Been there done that.
2. Most of the Oakwoodites prefer to call me The Handyman instead of THE HELP!
3. The entire statement is indicative of Classism which is just another form of Racism or persecution of the OTHER.
To explain that Kool-Aid comment.
In Jonestown, the followers drank poisoned Kool-Aid for their mass suicide.
But Greg you did not respond to the original questions. Why is Oakwood not progressive in your mind? What did Oakwood do to you? What areas are progressive? How do you link Fairmont students racism to Oakwood not being progressive? Can you prove Oakwood is not progressive?
You have made little if any progress on answering questions regarding YOUR statements. I hope I don’t have to beat it out of you……
As a primate with a lower melanin level who spends a majority of his time as a minority in his settings (Probably 10 percent of the people I interact with on a daily basis are of a lower melanin level), and who is engaged to a woman with a high melanin level indicitive of an African-American heritage, I would chip in with my thoughts, but they would only be to the choir, and would be soundly denounced by anyone suffering from subconcious persecution of the OTHER syndrome.
Gene, you live in Croakwood or something?
Thanks for this post. I need to know more. I’d like to point out that in this video you are focused on the words of someone who is obviously irate. A network journalist making such a report would have used phrases like, “the alleged racism,” or “Yvyette alleges that …”
You act like you are quite certain that you know all the facts, but, if truth, all you have are irate words from an irate person. The contents of this letter should have been researched before you made and posted a dialogue about its contents. Before making commentary on such an important and divisive issue as racism, you need to be well grounded in facts, otherwise you unwittingly contribute to thoughtless prejudice.
Oh, on another note regarding classism. Oakwood is the only place I have been in the Dayton area where I can hold the door open for my wife and three year old son and have them cut off by the natives that act like I am their door man and my family isn’t even there. This has happened to me on more than one occasion. Lack of awareness. Where I’m from that sort of thing can get you shot for disrespect. It’s a good thing people like that sequester themselves in some upscale hole. So please don’t defend Oakwood. I am sure this treatment isn’t reserved for me.
@Mike Bock
The reality is- we have a race problem in Dayton. This is just a springboard to talk about it. Are you in denial of race issues in Dayton? Check yourself before you sit in judgment.
I don’t live in Oakwood. I live in Dayton. I just want to know how a letter regarding Fairmont/Dunbar/Racism leads Greg to say Oakwood is not progressive. I am not connecting the dots. BC Kettering is next to Oakwood?
WTF is so progressive about Dayton? We are losing people, businesses, etc. That is not progress. If being “progressive” is about race, well then Oakwood used to be all white and now they are less white, so they are making progress. They have well over 100 homes for sale right now, why don’t the progressive black people of this area buy those homes.
Greg is not progressive at all. Grew up in Kettering, now, I guess, lives in Dayton. I think that is the opposite of progress. He is going backwards.
And Greg, if you can run businesses better than people in Oakwood then why are you not rich? To run a good business would mean that you make money. After all, that is what business is for – to make money. And if you are good at it you should have a shit pile of cash. Me thinks ya don’t.
Greg Hunter- aka THE HELP.
@WB – Where in Oakwood did this happen? Oh please I want the details, oh please!!
Along the shopping strip on Far Hills. I avoid the place like the plague since this sort of thing increases the likelihood of me banking one off the side of someone’s head.
David, the biggest part of the video concerns Kettering and sham, sham, shaming whatever it was that supposedly happened there. My point if you are going to make the accusation of racism, you should be certain of your facts, otherwise, you are simply contributing to the problem. You seem to be taking at face value an accusation. You are revealing your own prejudices by your willingness to suspend any skepticism of its validity.
@Mike Bock – the incident is well known and was covered by the Dayton Daily News and WhioTV. The letter in Dayton City Paper is from someone directly involved. At this point you seem to be contributing to the problem by casting doubt over whether this actually happened.
Make that shame, shame, shaming. Why can’t we edit comments?
@WB – more specific. If this happens, and now you avoid it, I say good for you. Vote with your wallet. But where exactly? What “business”? – or are you scared of the consequences, as if there are any.
Maybe THE HELP can explain.
@Gene – what consequences. Arrow Wine and Spirits, UPS Store, DLM.
Will Brooks — I didn’t hear anything in Greg and David’s video that indicated the news stories you mention, I thought all they had was the letter.
@ Mike – yeah, the letter is a follow up to the incident. Here is the story from DDN.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/crime/racial-epithets-allegedly-used-at-basketball-game-principal-investigating-434386.html?imw=Y
“Oakwood is the only place I have been in the Dayton area where I can hold the door open for my wife and three year old son and have them cut off by the natives that act like I am their door man and my family isn’t even there. This has happened to me on more than one occasion. Lack of awareness. Where I’m from that sort of thing can get you shot for disrespect.” – Will Brooks
How do you know these people were from Oakwood?
Arrow Wine is in Kettering.
The UPS store, interesting. So a mass amount of people flooded the UPS Store while you, your wife and your kid entered (or exited)? You held the door for this mass amount of people? I think you are lying. The best case is that one or two people were entering or exiting as you were doing the same. You should have been a gentleman about it. And how often does one go to the UPS store, especially with their family? Sounds like a one time thing….. And, again, these people could be from Kettering or Dayton or where ever….
DLM, in Oakwood, with automatic doors….. hummmmmm…….
Oakwood has it share of jerks. So does every other place on earth. Next time you decide to bitch (and lie) at least think it through. I knew you were going to say Arrow (which is in Kettering) and DLM (automatic doors.) Maybe these people are like you, coming into Oakwood from Dayton or Kettering or elsewhere. These asses may be YOUR neighbors.
Gene, I have been to the Mountain Top! I did not like what I saw and retreated. Do I have more money in my IRA than most people my age – Yes. Do I think Wall Street and DC will take it – Yes. Do I think relationships are more important than money going forward – Yes. Me thinks on the like meter I am loved and you are reviled, but probably sleep on a pile. Gene I refuse to do work for people or organizations that I do not believe in and that kind of commitment does not “pay well” compared to being a Vice President of a Beltway Bandit or a Sellout Congressman that says nothing while crooning beautifully.
The Handyman :)
Me Thinks if you had a wife I would have easy shoes to fill.
@Gene – never said mass amount of people. It’s always been one unaware individual cutting in front in a very unaware fashion. And, yes I’ve had people cut me off to get into automatic door at DLM. It’s more likely they are your neighbors.
Gene, or whoever you are, I really owe you no answer or defense of any incident I am involved in. I could care less about what you think or believe. But let me tell you what I think of your participation on this thread. I think you are a troll. I believe you do all you can to stir up as much as you can from participants here with no real valid input. You hide behind a fake name and twist us at each other all you can. Welcome to my ignore list, I think you will find yourself in good company – troll.
Greg – I admire you for not working in arenas you don’t want to/that you think are not positive. But you are the one who brought Oakwood into the discussion, will not and can not explain how they are not progressive (to a topic that had nothing to do with Oakwood.) And you want my “wife.” hmmmm… but you are THE HELP.
WB – people cut me off all the time in Beavercreek and Dayton and Oakwood. Yet I do not “blame” these people as being “classism” or anything else. It is a part of life. People can be rude. The problem you got yourself into is:
“Oakwood is the only place ”
Only place? Really? First, how do you know they were from Oakwood. Second, if they were my neighbors then they we be Daytonians doing it to you. Third, you must not venture far if this is the only place that does it to you. Call me whatever you want, but I am right – again.
Arrow is in KETTERING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EXPLAIN THAT!!!!!!!! AND YOU TAKE A 3 YEAR OLD TO A LIQUOR STORE? YOU MUST BE FROM DAYTON :) !
Just pointing out your mistakes fellas. Don’t say things if you can not defend them.
Hi Gene – You crack me up!! I think it’s funny that the people that have put you on their “troll list” are the ones that state their outrage about how their treated by others, make blanket statements about groups of people (ie – Oakwoodites), come up with stories and then are pissed off that you pay enough attention to the details of those stories to point out how their generalizations make no sense!! Keep up the good work! And, me thinks that if Greg had a wife, YOU’d have easy to shoes to fill!
Oh, I should call THE HELP a different name……. Ohhhhhh Mr. Helper, did not know you wanted to join the conversation…… (classic line)
But THE HELP can not answer simple questions. That figures. He went to Fairmont….. A normal response from a Fairmont Grad is : duhhhh.
Greg, aka, THE HELP, please enlighten me on how Oakwood is NOT progressive. I proved Will Brooks lied… or better yet exaggerated, but you…? …. Still not sure you are smart enough to handle your roll as THE HELP.
Gene – I’ve lurked here a long time and usually enjoy the comments. Your just sort of a butt head. You peruse through a comments section and jump on people for inconsistencies. Even though some of the folks could stand to clarify what they said I can’t see why anyone would answer you the way you dive in on things, calling people names, and insulting them. Gene – This is why people don’t like you. Based on your track record I have to agree that you are a troll. You love to get the pot stirred up and off topic.
LOL @ BrianJ. Tell Gene something he doesn’t already know.
And why do people not know the difference between “your” and “you’re”?
OFF TOPIC? Greg is the one that said Oakwood is not progressive, and that was off topic (the topic was Fairmont/Dunbar/Racism.) Then when I called him out on Oakwood, asking him to explain, he does not. He commented a few times but never explained the “Oakwood” comment. And if you watch the video again he makes a big deal of it. Then WB commented on Oakwood, saying ” Oakwood is the only place…” well, what the hell does that mean? Only? Then he explains with businesses, one of which is in Kettering, another that has automatic doors. So I guess I am pointing out that he is just railing on Oakwood bc they are an easy target. I will defend Oakwood bc they are progressive and successful. Dayton is neither yet people defend Dayton and it’s potential. I defend suburbs and their success. What is progressive? To vote Democrat? Fine. Oakwood, which generally votes Republican, had a larger switch from voting Republican to Democrat (Voting specifically for Obama) than any other community in Montgomery County. Heck, they are the most progressive “city” in Montgomery County then…. (No, I don’t have official stats on that, but the yard signs said it all. Obama was every third/forth house in Oakwood. Kerry or Gore were barely represented in 2000 and 2004. If I could fine the stats then I would post them.) Why is it so bad for me to ask someone to explain him/herself? Heck, this entire blog is about questioning others, bringing up topics to discuss. Then when I do it I am the bad guy? Yeah, I insult people who think they are absolutely correct when they are A) so wrong and B) hypocritical. All Greg had to do was explain. He did not. WB did explain, and in my opinion was just getting on Oakwood bc they are an easy target. Again, if someone is rude how would one know where they are from? Seriously, this ain’t my first rodeo. You called me a butt head, yet say I call people names? Get real. Hypocritical. But Greg and I… Read more »
BrianJ:
Gene:
Lots of folks may not like Gene’s style (or the fact that he won’t put his last name on a blog comment; really? lighten up, it’s the internet), but when I called him out on calling David and Greg, ‘dumb and dumber’ in another thread, he at least had the grace to apologize. In my opinion that says more about his character than his sometimes abrasive posts (which if you look past the ‘style’, usually have a grain of honest criticism).
I’ll echo David Lauri, why don’t people know the difference between “your” and “you’re”? Is it a DPS thing?
Spell Check/Not re-reading a post. I often type fast and watch tv at the same time…. and try to re-read/edit/ and spell check but of course that does not always “werk.” :)
DL – “your” a “gramer” cop! :)
The more I think about it, Gene is probably David E. or Greg H. trolling their blog.
Is this thread about the race issue or the Gene issue?
I am just bring up issues (in this particular post) regarding Oakwood and what people think of Oakwood. I did not start the subject on Oakwood, rather Greg did. I am a troll for calling him out, and WB out.
It is about race issues, and Oakwood, since Greg spoke loud and clear that Oakwood is not progressive. I say it is the most progressive city in Montgomery County.
Has anybody actually watched this video? I still can not connect the dots why Kettering’s racial issues are Oakwood’s problem. Kettering “the progressive school/suburb) (sarcasm was used there) then BOOM, Oakwood is not progressive and has no dark faces in the graduating class. Huh?
@Jeff- we can’t talk about race- ever. Gene always goes nuts if you say Oakwood, and so it goes-
@Brian J- You seriously think Greg and I have that much time on our hands? Just writing this blog and doing the video takes too much time as it is for all of you ungrateful haters.
David:
If you read ‘the other’ thing that Drexel Dave and I were talking about at the top of the thread more broadly, Gene pointing out Greg’s classism against the Oakies is sort of ironic (and on topic in a weird sort of way). Unfortunately Greg resorted to the James-Taylor-option against Gene’s name-calling and things quickly went south…
Topic? AGAIN, the topic is race, Kettering/Dunbar/letter then he goes to the “Oakwood” thing. WTF? The topic is the VIDEO, and in the VIDEO he slams Oakwood. Why is everyone saying this is “off” topic? The topic is the video, GREG brought in Oakwood to the discussion and I asked about it. Geez Louise, when the hell did everyone have such tunnel vision. WATCH THE VIDEO.
Ask Greg why he brought up Oakwood. Don’t blame me.
If he said Centerville I would have defend Centerville. This was in KETTERING. Blame Kettering.
DE, have you even watched this video? Why are you surprised that I (or anyone else) would ask about Oakwood? It was brought up in the VIDEO by Greg!!!
If this is OFF TOPIC then it is Greg’s fault. For Real People. Watch the video again.,,.,.,.
OK, per request of the host, I will talk briefly about race.
Most (if not all) regular blogger here are not racist. Most people in this county are not racist. I think this is somewhat of an isolated incident, mainly fueled by youth.
Yes, there are racist people, but it seems to me collectively we have progressed beyond a lot of it. People that are racist (for the most part) have clammed up or changed their views. I am not saying ignore racism. In this case it needed to be addressed. But to say this is a huge problem (bc of high school students) is going a bit far.
They had a KKK demonstration at an Ole Miss football game this season. The KKK was run out by white (and certainly black) student with moments.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/nov/21/students-shout-down-klan-ole-miss-rally/
We are not perfect. We need to do better. But at the very least let us recognize that in MISSISSIPPI on eleven members showed up and were ran off by students. If you want it to go away…. call a friend of a different color to come over to dinner tonight.