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	<title>Comments on: Antagonist? Catalyst? Realist? Change agent? It&#8217;s time for Dayton to face race.</title>
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	<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/</link>
	<description>Dayton Ohio revealed and discussed.</description>
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		<title>By: Dayton Grassroots Daily Show v.17 : Race relations in Dayton</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-50642</link>
		<dc:creator>Dayton Grassroots Daily Show v.17 : Race relations in Dayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-50642</guid>
		<description>[...] tried to have a discussion about race and our community- with the post about &#8220;The White City&#8221; but it devolved into a discussion about gay rights in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tried to have a discussion about race and our community- with the post about &#8220;The White City&#8221; but it devolved into a discussion about gay rights in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Considered: The White City &#171; For the Love of Dayton</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-50265</link>
		<dc:creator>Considered: The White City &#171; For the Love of Dayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 03:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-50265</guid>
		<description>[...] Esrati, RustWire, and many others have already commented on Renn&#8217;s post.  I&#8217;ll look at Dayton for a moment.  The city tends to divide east and west.  It happens that the eastside has more whites and the westside has more blacks.  This fact leads many to determine that race divides the city.  I think the issue is more geographic.  If I was white and lived on the westside, I would expect that the candidate from the westside (who is usually either/both black or/and a Democrat) to care more about the westside&#8217;s issues because that&#8217;s where his bread is buttered.  The same tends to go for the eastside where candidates tend to reflect the makeup of that side of the city (ie either/both white and/or Republican/Independent).  So, race isn&#8217;t probably any bigger of a problem in Dayton than in cities or comparable condition. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Esrati, RustWire, and many others have already commented on Renn&#8217;s post.  I&#8217;ll look at Dayton for a moment.  The city tends to divide east and west.  It happens that the eastside has more whites and the westside has more blacks.  This fact leads many to determine that race divides the city.  I think the issue is more geographic.  If I was white and lived on the westside, I would expect that the candidate from the westside (who is usually either/both black or/and a Democrat) to care more about the westside&#8217;s issues because that&#8217;s where his bread is buttered.  The same tends to go for the eastside where candidates tend to reflect the makeup of that side of the city (ie either/both white and/or Republican/Independent).  So, race isn&#8217;t probably any bigger of a problem in Dayton than in cities or comparable condition. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The real reason Dayton can&#8217;t regionalize.</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49557</link>
		<dc:creator>The real reason Dayton can&#8217;t regionalize.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49557</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;Identity theft for Cities&#8221; that I&#8217;ve been waiting to talk about (after my last debacle post about race and regionalism. Maybe this time- we can keep the comments on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Identity theft for Cities&#8221; that I&#8217;ve been waiting to talk about (after my last debacle post about race and regionalism. Maybe this time- we can keep the comments on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49545</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49545</guid>
		<description>Actually, JA, you are wrong. They had a final essay and only one person had a problem with it - you. I guess I should just come out and say it - you are making stuff up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, JA, you are wrong. They had a final essay and only one person had a problem with it &#8211; you. I guess I should just come out and say it &#8211; you are making stuff up.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Alexander</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49515</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49515</guid>
		<description>@Gene....again....the Final Grade Essay for the entire 9 weeks after reading this book...required students to reflect not on the book but on their own personal &amp; family religious beliefs...if they have in God? Do your parents have faith in God? What faith are you &amp; your parents? It is against the law to require a student to share their own beliefs. 

You or Robert earlier asked why I don&#039;t remove her from the school district if I don&#039;t like them questioning my or my child&#039;s faith....shouldn&#039;t it  be the other way around...if a parent wants their child to taught about faith...that they remove their child &amp; send them to Alter or Xenia Christian...private schools not public that are state &amp; federally funded






                                            </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gene&#8230;.again&#8230;.the Final Grade Essay for the entire 9 weeks after reading this book&#8230;required students to reflect not on the book but on their own personal &amp; family religious beliefs&#8230;if they have in God? Do your parents have faith in God? What faith are you &amp; your parents? It is against the law to require a student to share their own beliefs. </p>
<p>You or Robert earlier asked why I don&#8217;t remove her from the school district if I don&#8217;t like them questioning my or my child&#8217;s faith&#8230;.shouldn&#8217;t it  be the other way around&#8230;if a parent wants their child to taught about faith&#8230;that they remove their child &amp; send them to Alter or Xenia Christian&#8230;private schools not public that are state &amp; federally funded</p>
<p>                                            </p>
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		<title>By: Gary Staiger</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49514</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Staiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49514</guid>
		<description>@david L.
Your blog post is a great send up of Brian Jarvis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@david L.<br />
Your blog post is a great send up of Brian Jarvis.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49511</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49511</guid>
		<description>thanks for backing me up. She was not taught religion, rather about religion maybe. You are making this easy for me JA. Gary, what is a fair price for my advise. $100.00? Let me know and I will send you an invoice.

Teaching About Religion
5. Students may be taught about religion, but public schools may not teach religion. As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly said, &quot;[i]t might well be said that one&#039;s education is not complete without a study of comparative religion, or the history of religion and its relationship to the advancement of civilization.&quot; It would be difficult to teach art, music, literature and most social studies without considering religious influences.  
The history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature (either as a separate course or within some other existing course), are all permissible public school subjects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for backing me up. She was not taught religion, rather about religion maybe. You are making this easy for me JA. Gary, what is a fair price for my advise. $100.00? Let me know and I will send you an invoice.</p>
<p>Teaching About Religion<br />
5. Students may be taught about religion, but public schools may not teach religion. As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly said, &#8220;[i]t might well be said that one&#8217;s education is not complete without a study of comparative religion, or the history of religion and its relationship to the advancement of civilization.&#8221; It would be difficult to teach art, music, literature and most social studies without considering religious influences.  <br />
The history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature (either as a separate course or within some other existing course), are all permissible public school subjects.</p>
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		<title>By: David Lauri</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49509</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lauri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49509</guid>
		<description>I have to thank Brian Jarvis for being a man of conviction, willing to meet me for lunch to talk about his words.  Unfortunately, I also have to say that I came away from our conversation with less understanding than I&#039;d hoped for: http://www.davidlauri.com/blog/2009-11#2009-11-28</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to thank Brian Jarvis for being a man of conviction, willing to meet me for lunch to talk about his words.  Unfortunately, I also have to say that I came away from our conversation with less understanding than I&#8217;d hoped for: <a href="http://www.davidlauri.com/blog/2009-11#2009-11-28" rel="nofollow">http://www.davidlauri.com/blog/2009-11#2009-11-28</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gary Staiger</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49491</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Staiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49491</guid>
		<description>2001 N main st
Dayton, Oh, 45405
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2001 N main st<br />
Dayton, Oh, 45405<br />
 </p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49490</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49490</guid>
		<description>Thank you Gary. It is hard work keeping up with a group that complains all the time. A typical liberal, although well intentioned, brings up minor and little known stories to make their points. That is certainly fine, but they almost always are exaggerated stories. A typical liberal, who generally means well, is &quot;outraged&quot; over situations that are not important, minor or just are not worth bringing up. 

Over there years I have study the liberal thought process, a process that involves huge assumptions and leaping to conclusions. All this time I knew JA was making a mountain out of a mole hill, a liberal specialty. Liberals love to play the victim card, I called her out on it and Lisa backed up my assumptions. Again, my assumptions were based on years and years of studying the &quot;outraged&quot; liberal. 

I love to stereotype liberals. It is easier that way. You can mock me, but I am 100% right. Thank you. Where should I send the bill Gary? You have learned so much from me I might as well charge you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Gary. It is hard work keeping up with a group that complains all the time. A typical liberal, although well intentioned, brings up minor and little known stories to make their points. That is certainly fine, but they almost always are exaggerated stories. A typical liberal, who generally means well, is &#8220;outraged&#8221; over situations that are not important, minor or just are not worth bringing up. </p>
<p>Over there years I have study the liberal thought process, a process that involves huge assumptions and leaping to conclusions. All this time I knew JA was making a mountain out of a mole hill, a liberal specialty. Liberals love to play the victim card, I called her out on it and Lisa backed up my assumptions. Again, my assumptions were based on years and years of studying the &#8220;outraged&#8221; liberal. </p>
<p>I love to stereotype liberals. It is easier that way. You can mock me, but I am 100% right. Thank you. Where should I send the bill Gary? You have learned so much from me I might as well charge you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Alexander</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49488</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49488</guid>
		<description>Gene your so wrong. I don&#039;t even think this &quot;Lisa&quot;  exist &amp; even if she does &amp; if her daughter is as all knowing about MY daughter as Lisa thinks she is.......she would know why my daughter  left her regular lunch table this past week.  She would know which regular teacher sub  is friends w/ most of the students on FaceBook &amp; post remarks (harassing) about the students &quot;religion&quot; &amp; told my daughter &quot;she didn&#039;t like her religion&quot; &amp; has fought w/ several other students about religion. 

She would know the name of the math teacher my daughter had that during my parent teacher conference with her, that couldn&#039;t give her any extra help during study hall, yet offered me to have my daughter join her Prayer Group &amp; and we could all pray for a better grade.

Even if Lisa is real &amp; lives here &amp; her daughter was MY daughter&#039;s best friend....she still wouldn&#039;t know half of what we&#039;ve put up with here &amp; have just dealt with &amp; kept our mouths shut about to avoid anymore conflict for her.....I know that my biggest regret as a parent will always be having moved here. I tell my family I moved 4 miles down the road &amp; 40 yrs back to Appalachia.  We never the first time, ever encountered a situation in the Kettering schools that we felt as if religion was ever more than a personal family issue.  

Would also imagine if we had stayed in the Kettering schools my daughter would have been taught about the Civil War...as her teacher skipped over those chapters here in Bellbrook, when I asked the teacher why &quot;because the Civil War isn&#039;t hardly touched on in the Ohio Graduation Test&quot;.

@Gene &amp; Robert
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/joint-statement-current-law-religion-public-schools&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/joint-statement-current-law-religion-public-schools&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;teachers may not require students to modify, include or excise religious views in their assignments&quot;

Let us also not forget how Sugarcreek &amp; the loving nonjudgemental Christians here made national news, not to long ago  &lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/10/dayton-islamophobic-hate-crime-hoax-police-report-victim-blamed-black-males.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/10/dayton-islamophobic-hate-crime-hoax-police-report-victim-blamed-black-males.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; &quot;The answer may be that the Islamic Society of Greater Dayton is moving its mosque to the distant and white suburbs of Sugarcreek Township -- a plan approved just days before the alleged incident, as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/09/18/ddn091808mosqueweb.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this pre-incident Dayton Daily News article&lt;/a&gt; records. Whoever was behind this hate crime hoax may have calculated that any resistance to the mosque in Sugarcreek Township might be weakened by the proposition that Muslims were being threatened by black males in the mosque&#039;s present location. &quot;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&amp;pageId=45798&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&amp;pageId=45798&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; 
&lt;strong&gt;&quot;We just feel that Christianity is right and that Islam is wrong,&quot; Jude told the Daily News. &quot;Therefore, we take a stand to see (a mosque) not in our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&amp;pageId=45798#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;community&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gene your so wrong. I don&#8217;t even think this &#8220;Lisa&#8221;  exist &amp; even if she does &amp; if her daughter is as all knowing about MY daughter as Lisa thinks she is&#8230;&#8230;.she would know why my daughter  left her regular lunch table this past week.  She would know which regular teacher sub  is friends w/ most of the students on FaceBook &amp; post remarks (harassing) about the students &#8220;religion&#8221; &amp; told my daughter &#8220;she didn&#8217;t like her religion&#8221; &amp; has fought w/ several other students about religion. </p>
<p>She would know the name of the math teacher my daughter had that during my parent teacher conference with her, that couldn&#8217;t give her any extra help during study hall, yet offered me to have my daughter join her Prayer Group &amp; and we could all pray for a better grade.</p>
<p>Even if Lisa is real &amp; lives here &amp; her daughter was MY daughter&#8217;s best friend&#8230;.she still wouldn&#8217;t know half of what we&#8217;ve put up with here &amp; have just dealt with &amp; kept our mouths shut about to avoid anymore conflict for her&#8230;..I know that my biggest regret as a parent will always be having moved here. I tell my family I moved 4 miles down the road &amp; 40 yrs back to Appalachia.  We never the first time, ever encountered a situation in the Kettering schools that we felt as if religion was ever more than a personal family issue.  </p>
<p>Would also imagine if we had stayed in the Kettering schools my daughter would have been taught about the Civil War&#8230;as her teacher skipped over those chapters here in Bellbrook, when I asked the teacher why &#8220;because the Civil War isn&#8217;t hardly touched on in the Ohio Graduation Test&#8221;.</p>
<p>@Gene &amp; Robert<br />
<a href="http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/joint-statement-current-law-religion-public-schools" rel="nofollow">http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/joint-statement-current-law-religion-public-schools</a><br />
&#8220;teachers may not require students to modify, include or excise religious views in their assignments&#8221;</p>
<p>Let us also not forget how Sugarcreek &amp; the loving nonjudgemental Christians here made national news, not to long ago  <strong><a href="http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/10/dayton-islamophobic-hate-crime-hoax-police-report-victim-blamed-black-males.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/10/dayton-islamophobic-hate-crime-hoax-police-report-victim-blamed-black-males.html</a></strong><br />
<strong></strong> &#8221;The answer may be that the Islamic Society of Greater Dayton is moving its mosque to the distant and white suburbs of Sugarcreek Township &#8212; a plan approved just days before the alleged incident, as <a href="http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/09/18/ddn091808mosqueweb.html" rel="nofollow">this pre-incident Dayton Daily News article</a> records. Whoever was behind this hate crime hoax may have calculated that any resistance to the mosque in Sugarcreek Township might be weakened by the proposition that Muslims were being threatened by black males in the mosque&#8217;s present location. &#8221;</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&amp;pageId=45798" rel="nofollow">http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&amp;pageId=45798</a></strong><br />
<strong></strong> <br />
<strong>&#8220;We just feel that Christianity is right and that Islam is wrong,&#8221; Jude told the Daily News. &#8220;Therefore, we take a stand to see (a mosque) not in our <a href="http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&amp;pageId=45798#" rel="nofollow">community</a>.&#8221;</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Gary Staiger</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49487</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Staiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49487</guid>
		<description>@Gene,
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot; [my] years of diligent study of liberals that allows me to know when the complaints have merit or when the complaints are just a little too sensitive.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I gotta admire someone who has as much hubris as you do. You are truly &quot;special&quot;.
 
LOL
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gene,</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8221; [my] years of diligent study of liberals that allows me to know when the complaints have merit or when the complaints are just a little too sensitive.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I gotta admire someone who has as much hubris as you do. You are truly &#8220;special&#8221;.<br />
 <br />
LOL<br />
 </p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49473</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49473</guid>
		<description>Thank you Lisa. I knew I was right the whole time. JA exaggerated and was &quot;outraged&quot; over minor stuff. You see folks it is my years of diligent study of liberals that allows me to know when the complaints have merit or when the complaints are just a little too sensitive. It is this insight that I provide to all of you. You can all thank me later. These &quot;stories&quot; were a little  too convenient for liberals to rally around. And yes, after Lisa brought this up, I now remember a LOT of Obama signs in &quot;Republican&quot; areas...... In fact, I stated that I saw so many Obama signs  in conservative areas that I knew Obama would win (that was my reason, signs in the likes of Oakwood.) That was never the case in past years. You rarely would see Clinton or Gore or Kerry signs. JA was just too sensitive. Thank you again Lisa. And yes, liberal readers, I was stereotyping a liberal. A liberal is one who often blows up or makes things up to make the world seem bad and hateful. My experience is that most liberals are simply &quot;outraged&quot; for the sake of being dramatic. If you need my insight again, please ask. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Lisa. I knew I was right the whole time. JA exaggerated and was &#8220;outraged&#8221; over minor stuff. You see folks it is my years of diligent study of liberals that allows me to know when the complaints have merit or when the complaints are just a little too sensitive. It is this insight that I provide to all of you. You can all thank me later. These &#8220;stories&#8221; were a little  too convenient for liberals to rally around. And yes, after Lisa brought this up, I now remember a LOT of Obama signs in &#8220;Republican&#8221; areas&#8230;&#8230; In fact, I stated that I saw so many Obama signs  in conservative areas that I knew Obama would win (that was my reason, signs in the likes of Oakwood.) That was never the case in past years. You rarely would see Clinton or Gore or Kerry signs. JA was just too sensitive. Thank you again Lisa. And yes, liberal readers, I was stereotyping a liberal. A liberal is one who often blows up or makes things up to make the world seem bad and hateful. My experience is that most liberals are simply &#8220;outraged&#8221; for the sake of being dramatic. If you need my insight again, please ask. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49467</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49467</guid>
		<description>BTW the reason I did not and will not use my last name is that I didn&#039;t want to post about my daughter in a personally identifiable way.  I actually ran across your post and a&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.city-data.com/forum/dayton/826314-political-considerations-when-moving-suburban-greene.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; link to this thread on citydata&lt;/a&gt; which is read by people from all over the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW the reason I did not and will not use my last name is that I didn&#8217;t want to post about my daughter in a personally identifiable way.  I actually ran across your post and a<a href="http://www.city-data.com/forum/dayton/826314-political-considerations-when-moving-suburban-greene.html" rel="nofollow"> link to this thread on citydata</a> which is read by people from all over the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49465</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49465</guid>
		<description>I used the word thug because people who key cars/ slash tires/ confront teenage girls are thugs, and if that man in line keeps running his mouth like that he is going to get a visit  from the Secret Service.  My point is that most people in Bellbrook/Sugarcreek aren&#039;t like that.  I do apologize for using the word silly though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used the word thug because people who key cars/ slash tires/ confront teenage girls are thugs, and if that man in line keeps running his mouth like that he is going to get a visit  from the Secret Service.  My point is that most people in Bellbrook/Sugarcreek aren&#8217;t like that.  I do apologize for using the word silly though.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Vigh</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49447</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Vigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49447</guid>
		<description>Joe, you are correct.
I guess I see the hate part as redundant to murder. So, your correction stands and I will think on the redundancy into the future. Lets agree to disagree at this point. There was alot of posts and really all I wanted to get at was I thought Jarvis was wrong, for reasons that included Gays, but was not limited to them. Sorry for the initial misdirection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, you are correct.<br />
I guess I see the hate part as redundant to murder. So, your correction stands and I will think on the redundancy into the future. Lets agree to disagree at this point. There was alot of posts and really all I wanted to get at was I thought Jarvis was wrong, for reasons that included Gays, but was not limited to them. Sorry for the initial misdirection.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Lacey</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49440</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Lacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49440</guid>
		<description>Mr. Vigh says &quot;Furthermore, every time a law is passed that says killing anyone other than straight whitey is worse than killing straight whitey………..well, that is society at large saying killing straight whitey is not as bad.&quot;

Hate crime statutes are written to add penalties to bias motivated crimes against people because of their race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation.  If someone kills &quot;straight whitey&quot; because he is white or because he is heterosexual then that triggers the increased penalties of the hate crime statute.   Hate crimes laws are not written to give harsher punishment to the murder of minorities as Mr. Vigh says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Vigh says &#8220;Furthermore, every time a law is passed that says killing anyone other than straight whitey is worse than killing straight whitey………..well, that is society at large saying killing straight whitey is not as bad.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hate crime statutes are written to add penalties to bias motivated crimes against people because of their race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation.  If someone kills &#8220;straight whitey&#8221; because he is white or because he is heterosexual then that triggers the increased penalties of the hate crime statute.   Hate crimes laws are not written to give harsher punishment to the murder of minorities as Mr. Vigh says.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Alexander</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49426</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49426</guid>
		<description>Lisa, I never stated that I was the only dem in Bellbrook/Sugarcreek, just a member of the minority. Nor did I ever use the word &quot;thug&quot;. Nor, have I stated that EVERY republican, is insensitive &amp; abrasive to those with opposing views. Political signs of all parties are stolen on a regular basis,unfortunate, yet no big deal. 

 What may be &quot;silly&quot; to you, isn&#039;t to me or my family. As I would never claim to understand what affects your child&#039;s emotional &amp; educational well being.
 
Nor, have I even posted the worst of my concerns, since this is a public forum, with a child involved. For you to question your daughter about how MY daughter is treated, really adds nothing to the conversation, in my opinion. Unless, your daughter walks in my child&#039;s shoes &amp; is privy to every aspect of her daily school experience. Your daughter has no inside information to every conversation that my child has with classmates or teachers. As you also don&#039;t have any idea of what conversations &amp; interactions, that I, as her parent, have had with teachers, administration &amp; other parents.
 
Therefore, you can only make comment on your own daughter&#039;s experience within this school district &amp; your own as a parent. With that, I am very interested &amp; open to conversing how parents of different political beliefs look at the same school district
Study hall &amp; the Presidential Address...your daughter is wrong with that, the kids are allowed to leave every day, for a variety of reasons, tuturing, clubs, make-up test, whatever, as long as they have note from another teacher, giving them permission to leave...&amp; she did have a note from the school librarian. 
H1N1 line neighbor, how did he know we were democrats.....because he told us that it was &quot;President Obama&#039;s fault that we were having to wait in line for 5 hours to get a shot &amp; that the President himself should be shot&quot; (and he didn&#039;t mean with a vaccine) I told the man, in as a polite &amp; mild mannered as I could, &quot;well, I disagree with you, I support the President &amp; would prefer you not talking about shooting anyone in front of my child&quot;.
 
May I ask you, when your car was &quot;keyed&quot; how do you know that it was because of conservative bumper stickers? Were you left a note? Did it include a &quot;Top Ten Reasons Your GOP Ass Will Rot In Hell List&quot;?
 
May I also ask your last name, since you didn&#039;t post using it. Not that, I, would open this adult conversation/debate to my daughter.
 


&lt;!-- end of AOLMsgPart_2_2a503800-2cb0-4b37-9cd2-1c2027549cbc --&gt;
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa, I never stated that I was the only dem in Bellbrook/Sugarcreek, just a member of the minority. Nor did I ever use the word &#8220;thug&#8221;. Nor, have I stated that EVERY republican, is insensitive &amp; abrasive to those with opposing views. Political signs of all parties are stolen on a regular basis,unfortunate, yet no big deal. </p>
<p> What may be &#8220;silly&#8221; to you, isn&#8217;t to me or my family. As I would never claim to understand what affects your child&#8217;s emotional &amp; educational well being.<br />
 <br />
Nor, have I even posted the worst of my concerns, since this is a public forum, with a child involved. For you to question your daughter about how MY daughter is treated, really adds nothing to the conversation, in my opinion. Unless, your daughter walks in my child&#8217;s shoes &amp; is privy to every aspect of her daily school experience. Your daughter has no inside information to every conversation that my child has with classmates or teachers. As you also don&#8217;t have any idea of what conversations &amp; interactions, that I, as her parent, have had with teachers, administration &amp; other parents.<br />
 <br />
Therefore, you can only make comment on your own daughter&#8217;s experience within this school district &amp; your own as a parent. With that, I am very interested &amp; open to conversing how parents of different political beliefs look at the same school district<br />
Study hall &amp; the Presidential Address&#8230;your daughter is wrong with that, the kids are allowed to leave every day, for a variety of reasons, tuturing, clubs, make-up test, whatever, as long as they have note from another teacher, giving them permission to leave&#8230;&amp; she did have a note from the school librarian. <br />
H1N1 line neighbor, how did he know we were democrats&#8230;..because he told us that it was &#8221;President Obama&#8217;s fault that we were having to wait in line for 5 hours to get a shot &amp; that the President himself should be shot&#8221; (and he didn&#8217;t mean with a vaccine) I told the man, in as a polite &amp; mild mannered as I could, &#8220;well, I disagree with you, I support the President &amp; would prefer you not talking about shooting anyone in front of my child&#8221;.<br />
 <br />
May I ask you, when your car was &#8220;keyed&#8221; how do you know that it was because of conservative bumper stickers? Were you left a note? Did it include a &#8220;Top Ten Reasons Your GOP Ass Will Rot In Hell List&#8221;?<br />
 <br />
May I also ask your last name, since you didn&#8217;t post using it. Not that, I, would open this adult conversation/debate to my daughter.<br />
 </p>
<p><!-- end of AOLMsgPart_2_2a503800-2cb0-4b37-9cd2-1c2027549cbc --><br />
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49418</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49418</guid>
		<description>Ok this is getting silly.  JA is not the only democrat in Bellbrook/Sugarcreek.  There were many Obama signs in my neighborhood in Bellbrook and they were not stolen, vandalized, or otherwise messed with.  My daughter is in the same graduating class as JA&#039;s daughter, so I asked her if her daughter was getting harassed at school.  She told me that some football players has made some comments to her during the Day of Silence, but not any other students or teachers.  She added that she and her friends thought that the football players were acting like idiots.  As for the Obama speech, she said that study hall teacher doesn&#039;t let the kids out of class to do anything and that she didn&#039;t think that it was political.   I can&#039;t really comment on the book read in her English class because my daughter isn&#039;t in that class and had a different reading list.  I&#039;m curious - how did the man in the line for the flu shot know that JA and her daughter were Democrats?
Btw my car was also vandalized (keyed)  in Sugarcreek Twp for conservative stickers that were on it during the 2004 elections.
Just had to stick up fo Bellbrook and Sugarcreek.  We&#039;re not all a bunch of intolerant thugs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok this is getting silly.  JA is not the only democrat in Bellbrook/Sugarcreek.  There were many Obama signs in my neighborhood in Bellbrook and they were not stolen, vandalized, or otherwise messed with.  My daughter is in the same graduating class as JA&#8217;s daughter, so I asked her if her daughter was getting harassed at school.  She told me that some football players has made some comments to her during the Day of Silence, but not any other students or teachers.  She added that she and her friends thought that the football players were acting like idiots.  As for the Obama speech, she said that study hall teacher doesn&#8217;t let the kids out of class to do anything and that she didn&#8217;t think that it was political.   I can&#8217;t really comment on the book read in her English class because my daughter isn&#8217;t in that class and had a different reading list.  I&#8217;m curious &#8211; how did the man in the line for the flu shot know that JA and her daughter were Democrats?<br />
Btw my car was also vandalized (keyed)  in Sugarcreek Twp for conservative stickers that were on it during the 2004 elections.<br />
Just had to stick up fo Bellbrook and Sugarcreek.  We&#8217;re not all a bunch of intolerant thugs!</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Staiger</title>
		<link>http://esrati.com/antagonist-catalyst-realist-change-agent-its-time-for-dayton-to-face-race/3765/#comment-49406</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Staiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://esrati.com/?p=3765#comment-49406</guid>
		<description>my intent with the example of Grenada Miss.in using it  as an extreme case, was to illustrate  how there are times when a mere complaint to authorities is not enough, that it can take  larger response to solve the problem.
 
In JA&#039;s situation I would first want to determine that this wasn&#039;t just happening to one person, JA, and if it was wider spread and vested authority was not willing to address the problem then other remedies might be sought. In the situation at hand with  JA it is the people who were taunting her were the intolerant ones. Why should she have to tolerate intolerance just because someone  says it in a &quot;sports&quot; bar.
 
And Gene, please note that I was very clear about the &quot;slippery slope&quot; that is attached to any charge of discrimination.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
All of which I will grant ahead of time presents a slippery slope between determining what is discrimination resulting in harm to the person discriminated against and what is merely offensive behavior.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my intent with the example of Grenada Miss.in using it  as an extreme case, was to illustrate  how there are times when a mere complaint to authorities is not enough, that it can take  larger response to solve the problem.<br />
 <br />
In JA&#8217;s situation I would first want to determine that this wasn&#8217;t just happening to one person, JA, and if it was wider spread and vested authority was not willing to address the problem then other remedies might be sought. In the situation at hand with  JA it is the people who were taunting her were the intolerant ones. Why should she have to tolerate intolerance just because someone  says it in a &#8220;sports&#8221; bar.<br />
 <br />
And Gene, please note that I was very clear about the &#8220;slippery slope&#8221; that is attached to any charge of discrimination.</p>
<blockquote><p>
All of which I will grant ahead of time presents a slippery slope between determining what is discrimination resulting in harm to the person discriminated against and what is merely offensive behavior.
</p></blockquote>
<p> </p>
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